LL-L "Resources" 2002.04.19 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.APR.2002 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Mathieu. van Woerkom" <Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.kun.nl>
Subject: Resources

Caoimhín wrote:

> I have aligned it much more closely with the Ethnologue and introduced lots
> more links to the Ethnologue.
> I realize that this has disadvantages as well as advantages.
> Even though the new edition of the Ethnologue is now online,
> hopefully improved, and with more "dialects" promoted to
> languages I notice, there will no doubt be dialects which do
> not fit well into the Ethnologues division of things.  And the
> Ethnologue might even be plain wrong in places.

What is this Ethnologue anyhow? Their information on the Netherlands and
Belgium is indeed plain wrong. On this page
<http://www.ethnologue.com/show_map.asp?name=Netherlands&seq=1> it
says:  "Official Regional languages in Belgium..." This is impossible,
because
Belgium didn't ratify the European Charter for Regional and Minority
Languages.
Also, under the Netherlands it says: "Achterhoeks,
Drenths....Westerwolds" This
is incorrect, because the official regional languages of the Netherlands
are
Frisian, Low Saxon and Limburgish (yes, they are official! you can see
it here:
<http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/DeclareList.asp?NT=148&CM=8&DF=27/07/01>).
Dialects such as Westerwolds and sallands are varieties of the Low Saxon
language.
An even bigger mistake is: "In Belgium Dutch is commonly called Wallon
and
French is commonly called Flemish". It's just the other way around!

By the way, Caoimhín, you can also get a short introduction on the
regional
languages of the Netherlands at http://www.eblul.org/wow . At least they
are up
to date with their language information :-) .

Kind regards,
Mathieu van Woerkom

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Resources

Matheiu wrote (above)

> Also, under the Netherlands it says: "Achterhoeks, > Drenths....Westerwolds" This
> is incorrect, because the official regional languages of the Netherlands > are
> Frisian, Low Saxon and Limburgish

Quite so.  I have told them this just about three billion times, also
with regard to Low Saxon/Low German in Germany.  Each time they correct
it, and next time I look at it again there is a new quirky thing like
the one you described, or "Low Saxon" and "Low German" listed as two
separate languages ...  I wonder if at the root of it is that they
unquestioningly adopt anyone's input instead of following up with their
own research and synthetization of information.  How many times have
people from the Netherlands written me to tell me things like they can
understand Low Saxon but themselves only use Drents or Twents or
Grunnegs or ..., and people from Germany writing things that show that
they have no idea that their local "Platt" is a part of the same
language we talk about!  So, perhaps, if someone contacts the Ethnologue
people and says something like "But you forgot to mention Drents under
'Netherlands'!" they go and add it.  So, useful as it can be at times,
the Ethnologue is by no means the linguist's bible.

> By the way, Caoimhín, you can also get a short introduction on the > regional
> languages of the Netherlands at http://www.eblul.org/wow . At least they > are up
> to date with their language information :-) .

Slowly though that mill grinds, too!  At least some of its wheels, like
the committee for Germany.  Well, now they are listing "Low German" on
the page for Germany, only about three years after I started pestering
them about it.  But guess what!  The entry contains zero information,
let alone a reference to its relationship to "Low Saxon" under
"Netherlands" I requested.  And ... no Frisian, no Romani and Sinte!
What's up with that?!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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