LL-L "Language policies" 2002.08.01 (04) [E]

Sat Aug 3 23:11:23 UTC 2002

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "botas(club)" <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2002.08.02 (04) [E]

Maybe someone could (no hurry) eplain all this. Idon´t understand what
these "codes etc. are all about.
Mike Wintzer

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From: erek gass <egass at caribline.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2002.07.29 (05) [E]

Of course, some "Americanisms" are bound to work their way into a
language when an American presence (some would say "intrusion") is
constant and especially when it is "friendly" (thereby increasing the
usage and diminishing natural resistances).  There are those in the
nation who doggedly construct words from existing roots to keep their
language pure (perhaps a better example than Iceland is France, but it
has applied in both countries).  Sometimes the intrusive foreign word
succeeds (young people are less inclined to resist and in many cases
adopt the foreign as "slang"), and sometimes it fails (older and wiser"?
heads prevail).

If you check an English-Icelandic dictionary, you'll find many instances
of words constructed from existing roots to identify a new piece of
technology. In the English-speaking word we frequently go the other way
by intentionally creating names from Greek and Latin roots (we've gone
with telegraph, telephone, and television instead of crosswrite,
crosssound, and crosssight).

I haven't been in Iceland or the Faeroes since the early '70s.  I didn't
notice many Americanisms at the time.  I'm guessing that as technology,
especially Computer-related technology, has grown and enveloped the
world and is pretty much dominated by US standards adopting new words
may be becoming less and less practical.  Why invent a word only used in
a limited area when you are in contact with persons all over the world
who don't speak your language?  Setting up at least a limited "Lingua
Franca" within a particular occupational community (medicine,
technology, engineering, asf) does have its advantages!

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From: erek gass <egass at caribline.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2002.07.29 (03) [E]

I was out of touch with my computer for a few days (in the upstate
Pennsylvania mountains) so I'm responding as I backtrack through my
e-mails.  I have responded to some of Ian's [excellent] points on two
previously sent messages.

I very much appreciate Ian's implied reminder that every language offers
unique expressions and nuances that can best be delivered in only that
language; it adds to the point that so many of us have been making.  ALL
languages, whether they be practical or impractical in given instances,
are not only equal, but indeed of value for they uniquely offer.  While
Scots, for instance, is more likely to be a topic of dissertations
rather than the language of dissertations, it is nonetheless a language
which stands just as tall, is just as valuable, and enjoys every bit of
the importance of so-called "standard" languages.

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From: Ian James Parsley (Laptop) <parsleyij at ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2002.07.30 (01) [E]

Ron et al.,

That point about 'Missingsch' being passed off by the media as 'Platt'
is
absolutely essential and will be recognized by many of us who cherish
lesser-used languages on this list.

Certainly I often hear vaguely Scottified English passed off as
'Lallans' or
'Doric' (the term 'Scots' is in fact rarely used), or poetry such as
that of
WF Marshall passed off as 'Ulster Scots' (it was in fact West Tyrone
Hiberno-English - heavy Scots influences, but basically and
syntactically
English).

Of course, I would be mischievous enough to point out that this can
occur
even where the lesser-used language has no connection to the dominant
administrative language of the area. One can find translations into
'Irish'
from English so literal that they reveal embarrassing mistakes - such as
using the Irish for 'wonder' (as in 'marvel') when what is actually
meant is
'wander' (as in 'dawdle') or, as is very common, using the singular 'Go
raibh maith agat' (thank you) to lots of people (in which case the
plural
'Go raibh maith agaibh' is required, evidenced on this list quite
correctly
by Cristoir).

I suspect in the case of Low Saxon it is very much a case of the media
simply not acquainting itself with the issues (now there's a new one, he
says sarcastically...), but on other occasions the activists for a
lesser-used language do themselves no favours. Whatever, I'm sure most
list
members empathize exactly with that point.

Regards
----------------------------------
Ian James Parsley
Belfast, Northern Ireland.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language policies

Ian,

> I suspect in the case of Low Saxon it is very much a case of the media
> simply not acquainting itself with the issues (now there's a new one,
> he says sarcastically...),

Yeah, really ...  I wish it were that simple, because it's easier to do
something about ignorance.  I'm afraid I have to emphasize that this
pseudo-LS is only used in *national* or otherwise widely distributed
programming (i.e., with non-North-Germans or at least with non-LS
Speakers in mind).  Furthermore, please note that, at least more
recently, actual LS is used in *local* (North German) broadcasting (both
radio and TV).  Also, this pseudo-"Platt" is used in national
broadcasting by the very same actors that at home, for the local theater
crowd, perform in genuine LS.  So, need I say more?

As a result of this Missingsch-based pseudo-"Platt" being sold
nationally I have been asked by South Germans to play the performing
monkey by giving them "Platt"-speaking sample demonstration.  This
usually met with disappointment, because they could not understand me,
and I remember one family protesting, "No, not like that! Like the ...
Theater on TV!"  They wanted to hear *"Platt"*, not foreign-sounding
gobbledigook.  An Austrian identified it as _solch ein Holländisch_
("some sort of Dutch").  You see, none of that fitted in with the then
quasi-official German dialect "shpeel."

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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