LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.12.04 (02) [E/Cornish]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 04.DEC.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: George M Gibault <gmg at direct.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.12.03 (10) [E]

Tom,

The Cornish language died out in the 1700s. There is a revival movement but
the chain of native speakers was broken. The Chesepeake Bay dialect you
refer to is well known to dialectologists. It is an archaic English dialect
with a lot of southwestern influence certainly - but sorry - Cornish it
ain't.

Best wishes                     George Gibault

----------

From: Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.12.03 (10) [E]

Tom Byron wrote:
>>Is Cornish still a living language?  I should mention that I had dinner
witha Canadian steelmaker , Syd Melbourne of Dofasco Steel in Montreal about
10 years ago, when he mentioned a most peculiar experience.  He and his
friends landed by boat on an island in the Chesepeake Bay where they
encountered a population that spoke a form of English that no  one could
understand.
After a while though, it began to sound familiar.  :It then came to him.  He
had last heard this language while spending his summers in the Cornish
countryside as a young child.  Then he began to understand the language a
bit. Now he described the language as a form of English but is it possible
that this population actually spoke the Keltic Cornish language?<<

Tom Wheg,

Yth yw an Kernowek tavas bew unweyth arta.

The Cornish language is once again alive.

Cornish was no longer a community language by around 1800. There were
probably some indivuduals who had knowledge of the language. Sentences,
words, phrases, prayers and the numbers were remebered by some as late as
the beginning of the 20th century. Fish were counted in Cornish on the fish
market in St Ives up to the 1930ies.

There were quite a few Cornish emigrants, mostly miners and farmers, to the
Americas, but mainly to Australia. How many of them were Cornish speakers is
not known. I know of one Cornish speaker in the 18th century who emigrated
(I`m not sure whether it was the US or Canada) and corresponded with his
family in Cornish.

The year 1904 is generally seen as the starting point of the Cornish
language revival, which is when Henry Jenner published his "Handbook of the
Cornish Language".

Today Cornish has approximately 300 fluent speakers, and probably another
2000 or 3000 speakers of varying competence. There are neo-native-speakers,
children of Cornish language enthusiasts raised in Cornish. Cornish is also
being learnt in many emigrant communities throughout the world.

Since there is no community in which the majority (or even a largish
minority) consists of Cornish speakers, I very much doubt that whatever your
friend Syd Melbourne heard was the Cornish language but rather was dialect
English. I think any native speaker of English could spot an English
dialect, even if he understood little of it. Cornish is so different that it
would have been recognised as an entirely different language instantly.

Older Cornish people still speak the English dialect which had replaced the
Cornish language. The dialect of eastern Cornwall is a continuation of the
dialects of Devon, with little lexical and structural influence from
Cornish. The dialect in the West of Cornwall is different in that it has a
more noticeable Cornish substratum and is phonologically closer to standard
English. But there is phonological influence from Cornish (mainly the
diphthong /IU/ instead of EastCornw./Devon /Y/) and the intonation of West
Penwith is very distinct and seen to be a survival of Cornish intonational
patterns.

I should think these last to sentences saved me from being too much
off-topic. So if anyone would like to know more about the Cornish language
I`d be glad to answer any of your questions. (daniel at ryan-prohaska.com).

Yehes da dheugh lemmyn ha woja hemma ynwedh

/`Eh at z daa dhIUh `lEbm at n (h)@ `udj@ hEbm@ @`we:dh/, or:
/´ɛhÉ™z dæ: Ã°ÉªÊ h `lÉ›bmÉ™n (h)É™ Ê dÊ’É™  ´hÉ›bmÉ™ ə´we:ð/

"Good health to you now and afterwards, too"

Dan

----------

From: Marcel Bas mrbas_26 at hotmail.com
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.12.03 (10) [E]

Hi Thomas,

Possibly the English tongue that they heard in the Chesepeake Bay was an
English dialect; Cornish was extinct already in the 19th century. Currently
the language experiences an upsurge among Cornish people who have taught the
language to themselves through books or courses.

Cornish is too much a Celtic language to be mistaken for an English laguage.

Regards, Marcel.

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================