LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.05 (05) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 05.DEC.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.05 (01) [D/E]

At 07:38 AM 12/05/02 -0800, Stan Levinson wrote:
>Jij hebt gelijk.  Hier is het "metric stelsel" iets
>bijna zo "gevaarlijk" als communismus!  De meeste
>mensen willen niets met Metric (vooral wat gewicht en
>lengte betreft) te doen hebben.  Mijn zusje heeft zelf
>meerdere keer gezegt "Oh, I just cannot understand
>that Metric System."  Not understand, zeg ik?  Kun je
>tot tien tellen?
>Moeten jullie echter niet geloven dat Amerikanen dat
>foot-inch-ounce-pound stelsel beter begrijpen!!!
>I think it has something to do with our resistance to
>a system of "proportional representation" in
>elections!  :)

I heard an American comic one say, "If God wanted us to use the metric
system, he would have given us ten apostles instead of twelve."  Here's a
comeback for Americans who say that the metric system is more confusing
than their own:  How many yards in a mile?  Or how about this:  Which is
heavier an once of feathers or an once of gold?  (gold is measured in
apothecary onces, which are heavier).  But which is heavier, a pound of
feathers or a pound of gold?  Wrong.  (there are only twelve onces in an
apothecary pound as opposed to the standard sixteen).  Imagine:  before
Canada went metric, things were even screwier, since we used the Imperial
Standard, which has different sized onces, gallons, measuring spoons, and
more!

Ed Alexander, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

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From: "Ian James Parsley" <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.05 (04) [D/E]

Ron and Gabriele,

I think it is interesting, though, to follow what is
'left over' from such a change.

Without wishing to make any form of political point,
it frustrates me immensely that we in the UK decided
to change in 1965, and never completed the job, while
our 'daughter countries' went ahead and got on with
it! Still we have miles and yards (even though the
people constructing the roads use metric), and talk
feet/inches and stone/pounds. (For those who have
never visited, yards are even used on roadsigns where
feet would be in the US.)

Although it could be worse - the Irish Republic uses
metric for distances ('Áth Cliath/DUBLIN 75km') but
miles an hour for speed limits ('30 mph')! Confusing!
They hadn't considered that all cars to the UK/Ireland
(left-hand drive) market give prominence to miles; and
they also replaced distance signs *gradually* (older
signs are still in miles, you have to seek out the
'km'), which obviously they couldn't do with speed
limit signs.

But I wonder off-topic a little. Firstly, in the
English-speaking world the conversion has not been
completed. Australia uses kilos, but still feet/inches
for height. The UK and Ireland are very mixed - I much
prefer km but would struggle to give either weight or
height in metric (even though I favour complete
conversion NOW!) Canada of course went metric and
there are big warning signs indicated as much at the
US border, but nonetheless I've heard Canadians using
the 'old' measures.

Then there's the issue of what happens elsewhere.
Germans still refer metaphorically to a 'Meilenstein'.
Did I mishear a soccer commentator say, after a shot
that glazed the bar, 'Zentner!' (where an
English-speaker would say 'inches!')? Could
'Zentimeter!' as an exclamation be used as an
equivalent? And of course the old idea that metric
measures would mean the end of the 'traditional
British pint' are as untrue as the idea that metric
measures are a 'European directive' (like I say, the
decision was taken 8 years before entry to the EEC!) -
Germans do, after all, still have their 'Pfund' in
colloquial parlance.

Yes, the metric system is definitely miles better!

------------------
Ian James Parsley
www.ianjamesparsley.net
+44 (0)77 2095 1736
JOY - "Jesus, Others, You"

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From: Global Moose Translations globalmoose at t-online.de
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.05 (04) [D/E]

Dear Ron,

your reply really had me in stitches - especially the last bit. But I've
seen the same - everybody is actually complaining about how HARD the metric
system is. Come again?!
One litre equals the volume contained in ten by ten by centimeters, or one
kilogram of water. And don't tell me it's so hard to remember that water
freezes at zero degrees, and boils at a hundred. A chimp can remember that.

Maybe that's the problem - all these complicated measurements give people a
sense of achievement once they have figured them out?
After all, I was very proud of myself when I had learned the mysteries of
DOS, and felt downright offended when Windows came along and suddenly
EVERYBODY could use a computer without making the same effort that I had
made. ;-)

On the other hand, neither my husband nor my ex-husband, both American and
college graduates with a science degree, could ever explian to me the
difference between a fjuid and a solid ounce, and which one would apply to
measure applesauce, for example.

Another theory is that, since the USA are a young country without a long
history, they like to stick to whatever they feel they have in the way of
tradition. That would also explain why all their paper money is still green
and you can never tell at one glimpse how much you actually have in your
wallet, while most other countries are using colour-coded bills, often with
additional information in Braille.

Of course, it's not like we Europeans are all that innocent in that respect.
Remember how, decades ago by now, the "calory" unit was officially replaced
by "Joule"? It's not like anyone has ever adapted to that (although I guess
they would have easily if the calory information were simply no longer
provided). Also, Germans are never really sure how to pronounce "Joule".

Een prettige Sinterklaasavond toegewenst!
Gabriele Kahn

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From: R. F. Hahn <admin at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Measure words

Ian:

> Then there's the issue of what happens elsewhere.
> Germans still refer metaphorically to a 'Meilenstein'.

There are still such linguistic fossils in German and in Lowlands Saxon (Low
German) -- e.g. also G. _meilenlang_ and LS _mielenlang_ ("miles long")
'very long/far'.  But they do not denote actual measures anymore.  You can
also talk about G. _Daumenbreite_ ("thumb's width"), and you have the good
old _Zollstock_ (LS _Tollstock_) ("inch stick") 'folding rule' (which
nowadays shows metrics).

> Did I mishear a soccer commentator say, after a shot
> that glazed the bar, 'Zentner!' (where an
> English-speaker would say 'inches!')?

A _Zentner_ is the old German equivalent of a hundredweight.  It is the
equivalent of 1000 _Pfund_ (pounds), and a _Pfund_ (LS _Pund_) is 0.5
kilograms.  A _Zentner_ is thus 500 kg.  It's just a remnant of the old
system, as is the _Pfund_, but they have been adapted to the international
system from one in which their values were somewhat different.

> Could
> 'Zentimeter!' as an exclamation be used as an
> equivalent?

I have a feeling the commentator was referring to the force of the kick, a
"bomb", a "whammy," rather than to the closeness to the bar.  (See about
_Zentner_ above.)

Gabriele:
> After all, I was very proud of myself when I had learned the mysteries of
> DOS, and felt downright offended when Windows came along and suddenly
> EVERYBODY could use a computer without making the same effort that I had
> made. ;-)

Darn, huh? I went through the same experience, and then again when I had
"mastered" HTML script and HTML editing programs came out.  Join the club!
There are many of us.  This is what happens if you have to be at the
forefront of stuff and can't wait for the bandwagon to come along.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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