LL-L "Orthography" 2002.12.06 (11) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 06.DEC.2002 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Candon McLean <candon3 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.12.06 (04) [E]

> From: Dan Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
> Subject: LL-L "Holidays" 2002.12.05
>
> Candon McLean wrote:
>
> <<While I can appreciate the attempt at inclusiveness by mentioning
> Jewish and Islamic holidays, why is it that no attempts are made to
> include other world religions, e.g. Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto,
> Native American traditions, Wicca, Asatru, Druidism?>>
>
> Candon Wheg,
>
> You mentioned "Wicca". A couple of years ago I bumped into a couple
> of
> Anglo-Saxon style Pagans and they kept speaking of the "wikka".
> Being
> heavily involved in Old English studies at the time I told them
> that OE
> <wicca> had a palatal double consonant and was most likely
> pronounced
> something like "witcha" /witSa/. They laughed at me and that really
> pissed me off. I then checked my favourite dictionary THE COLLINS
> and
> found the phonetic transscription /wik@/ for this revived Old
> English
> word. That pissed me off even more. I don`t know why this gets to
> me
> like that, I`m not even a believer!!!
>
> Gans oll ow holon vy,
>
> Perplexed-at-his-own-reaction Dan

Well you were right Dan.  In Old English Wicce (fem) Wicca (masc)
would have had an palatal affricate, and hence gave Modern English
"Witch,"  which is a big clue to the Old English pronunciation.  I'm
sorry they laughed at you, but many religions have traditions that
are counter to history or science.

That modern Witches pronounce their word for their religion "Wicca"
as [wik@] should be seen in the light of all literary borrowings from
Old English (and a clue to just when the religion of Wicca came into
being).  So for example, when Kipling used the Old English word
_dwerg_ 'dwarf' he would not have pronounced the the final /g/ as a
velar affricate (still found in Scots _dwerch_) or (as in later
English) as a vowel (dwerrow), he would have pronounced it as
[dwerg].

The same goes with other words like _scop_ 'poet,' which according to
the OED can be pronounced with a palatal fricative, orthographic <sh>
or as [sk].

I do understand your annoyance, though.  Every time I hear people
pronounce "ye olde shoppe" as [ji old Sap], I cringe at the total
lack of historical development of their own language.

And Shakespeare's miss use and mixing (often in the same sentence) of
the various forms of "thou" and "you" I find quite annoying as well.

Pob Hwyl,

Candon McLean

PS: In case you're wondering I'm not a follower of Wicca.  I'm
Celto-Germanic in outlook, meaning I honor both the Celtic and
Germanic Gods.  If a lable is needed, I choose to call myself
Glasian, from the Celtic word _glas_.

C.

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================