LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.16 (01) [A/E]
Lowlands-L
admin at lowlands-l.net
Mon Dec 16 19:30:34 UTC 2002
======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 16.DEC.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net> Email: <admin at lowlands-l.net>
Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================
From: Ian James Parsley <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: Measure Words
Folk,
May I be bold enough to suggest we are straying a
little from the subject here?! (I know it has already
been done in German, but presumably no one noticed!)
I think there *is* a related issue here, namely that
what is ostensibly merely a methodology for measuring
things can become a cultural symbol, as suggested most
recently by Gabriele.
I think in both the UK and the US this is the case -
the Customary Measures are used to illustrate
difference and as a symbol of national identity in
countries that are 'melting pots', and in the former
case whose population feels its identity is 'under
threat' from those 'nasty Europeans' (evidenced by the
constant repetition of the idea the system is being
forced on them 'by Brussels', where in fact the UK
Government adopted it in 1965).
To bring this back to the point, can Lowlanders think
of any parallels used by the various speech
communities on this list? Are there any cases of
measuring systems (of time, length, weight or
particularly currency) that are/were used as a
cultural marker?
Compliments of the Season,
=====
------------------
Ian James Parsley
www.ianjamesparsley.net
+44 (0)77 2095 1736
JOY - "Jesus, Others, You"
----------
From: rossmay <rossmay at bellsouth.net>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.15 (03) [E]
Gabrielle wrote: "Wasp Superiority". For shame, Pandora. Please close
your box.
First, I approve of the SAE system that we currently have. I am very
comfortable with it.
But "WASP" ! Do I detect a mite of resentment here? Let us see, "White"
(must mean Caucasian), "Anglo-Saxon" (But, dear I am not Anglo-Saxon, I am
of Celtic-Viking descent, with a little Croatian inserted. "Protestant",
hmmmm........ I guess am at that, but I do think she protests too much! And
your little foot, well, we could hav a "bitty-foot" of only eight inches (or
centimeters of you wish).
And, by the way, Gabby, I am eighth-generation American, with
ancestors who fought in the American Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War,
WWI, and WWII, Korea, and I myself fought in Viet-Nam, all for the right to
use what we choose. Long-live the REAL Freedom of Choice! Greetings from
the New World.
----------
From: bowman <bowman at montana.com>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.15 (03) [E]
At 06:34 PM 12/15/2002 -0800, Gabriele Kahn wrote:
>By the way, an average man's foot is ten inches long at most - much shorter
>than twelve inches, or "one foot" (but then, we know about that male
>tendency to exaggerate...).
Not being average, my foot is one foot long. Oddly enough, the 12 inch foot
fits nicely into a size 12 shoe. Not a 45 or 46, whatever that may derive
from.
I have nothing against metrification (though I wish my vehicles were one
system or the other, not a blend). However, there are many physical things
which are based on English units. As someone pointed out, the building
trades work in inches and feet. If a carpenter starts putting in joists on
something other than 18" or 24" centers, suddenly none of the
premanufactured parts will fit. So, do we call it 45.72 cm centers or some
other odd measurement?
Weights, speeds, and distances are relatively easy to change. It would take
a generation before a '1/4 kilo' steak really meant much, but it could be
done. Likewise, there isn't a big difference if I go down the road at 100
kph or 65 mph.
Many things have already been metrified; its just that no one noticed.
-----------
From: UB82DN at aol.com <UB82DN at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.15 (03) [E]
Liewe Laaglanders,
I only got into this particular discussion because I got tired of hearing
that ordinary Americans are backward for preferring a measurement system
which works well enough for most purposes.
Ed Alexander answers part of my post with <You can't be serious.> To save
time, I answer that I am quite serious.
If I got into other points he has raised, I would have to mention Jewkes,
Mises, Hayek, roads to serfdom.... Unless the moderators want a full-scale
political debate, this might be a good place to stop.
Much better to get back to the fate of the two Indo-European /e:/s in
Gothic,
as opposed to West Germanic.
Moderately,
Joe Stromberg,
Auburn, Alabama
----------
From: pieter meester <pieter.meester at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.13 (04) [E/Spanish]
Jorge
As to bolts it is even more complicated. Wrenches for Whitworth bolts are
based on the stem diameter is fractional inches. The wrench for a 5/16 inch
whitworth or the more fine BSF (British Standard Fine) reads 5/16" but
measures between the jaws 9/16" (if you are lucky a 13 mm spanner would just
fits). But if you are faced with a UNF, as used in car engines the world
over, 5/16" needs a 1/2" spanner. (Hard experience of maintaining a 1961
Rover 100 for over 30 years, which uses BSF for chassis and body work, but
UNF for the engine (or motor if you like)).
Pieter Meester
----------
From: Browne, Kevin at Astronaut <BrowneK at brevard.k12.fl.us>
Subject: measure words
Hey Tom,
I'm not a numbskulled American! I might be ignorant of a lot of things,
but I also don't make direct attacks at other nationalities on this list.
Pas op, wat je zegt! Vrede! Vrede! Vrede! I personally like the metric
system. Het was drie grad s'morgens. And I have driven in Canada
on occassions and had no problem with kilometers.
Gabrielle, my foot is about 1 foot and I am about 6 foot tall, if that's
average? (For Tom: I'm about 1.87 m - dig, dig, dig!)
Kevin Browne
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Measure words" 2002.12.15 (03) [E]
> Ross May wrote:
>
>> ... But the citizenry will speak the
>> language that they choose to, just as the people of America have
>> chosen to
>> use the SAE measurements instead of the metric.
Dear Ross,
I do not agree with that statement. I live next to the French border.
All the Flemish people in France were obliged to speak French and they
did,'t want to.The state punished everyone that spoke Flemish. But
after more than 300 years, the French state won. Now there are just a
few thousand left that still can speak Flemish.
Greetings
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Measure words
Folks,
Obviously this is a volatile subject to some, lending itself to triggering
expressions of resentment and accusations that may be more deeply rooted.
All the more reason to make an effort to stay on the straight and narrow, to
remember that this is an international forum consisting of individuals
rather than of ethnic or national delegates or representatives, to refrain
from name-calling (real or implied), to remember that one person's
"stubbornness" and "arrogance" are the other person's "choice" and
"prerogative", to remember that it will eventually all come out in the wash,
and to file this one away under "V", as in "volatile" and _vive la
différence_.
Peace!
Reinhard/Ron
==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
More information about the LOWLANDS-L
mailing list