LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.07.16 (01) [E/LS]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 16 16:15:29 UTC 2002
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L O W L A N D S - L * 16.JUL.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Reuben Epp" <repp at silk.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.07.15 (11) [E]
>From Reuben Epp <repp at silk,net>
Subject: LL-L "Language Varieties"
Dear Lowlanders,
Ron has answered Gabrielle's question regarding the
identity of Plautdietsch rather well. So the definition needs
no further help from me.
The book that Ron recommends is available in Germany
from Peter Wiens of Plautdietsch-Freunde at Oerlinghausen,
near Bielefeld, at the following address:
mailto:info at plautdietsch-freunde.de
Cheers!
Reuben Epp
> From: globalmoose at t-online.de (Global Moose Translations)
> Subject: LL-L "Demographics" 2002.07.15 (07) [E/LS/German]
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that, despite the name,
> Plautdietsch is ... largely derived from a Southern German dialect.
>
> Greetings,
> Gabriele Kahn
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> Hi, Gabriele!
>
> "Plautdietsch" is most certainly and indisputably a Lowlands Saxon (Low
> German) dialect (group)! It is primarily Saxon-based, and the
> phonological differences between it and other LS dialects (or groups)
> are entirely predictable.
>
> I strongly encourage you to read our own Reuben Epps book _The Story of
> Low German & Plautdietsch: Tracing a language across the globe_,
> Hillsboro, KS: The Reader's Press, 1993, ISBN 0-9638494-0-9.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
----------
From: globalmoose at t-online.de (Global Moose Translations)
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.07.15 (11) [E]
Dear Ron,
thanks for the prompt service. :-)
During my time in the USA, I had heard more than once that Plautdietsch
- of
which I knew no samples then - was derived from Southern
German/Alemannic
dialects. So either my sources (which I cannot now remember) confused
something here, or I did. In any case, I stand corrected.
Greetings,
Gabriele Kahn
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties
Thanks. Reuben and Gabriele.
Gabriele:
> So either my sources (which I cannot now remember) confused
> something here, or I did.
I have a smeaking suspicion that this was yet another case of confusing
Mennonites and Amish, the latter of which speak Pennsylvania German
(Daytsh, Pennsylvanish, formerly "Pennsylvania Dutch") which is mostly
based on German dialects of the Palatinate.
To illustrate my point a bit further, I'll illustrate below (in the form
of *cognates*) the Lowlands nature of Plautdietsch, namely the absence
of specifically German features (shifts):
English Scots Dutch N.Low.Sax. Plautdietsch German
tide tide tijd Tied~Tiet Tiet Zeit
town toon tuin Tuun Tun~Tün Zaun
tit/teat tit tiet Titt Tett Zitze
tooth tuith tand Tähn Tän Zahn
two twa twee twee twee zwei
ten ten tien teihn tian zehn
pound pund pond Pund Punt Pfund
apple aiple appel Appel Aupel Apfel
ship ship schip Schipp Schepp Schiff
leap lowp lopen lopen loope(n) laufen
foot fit foet Foot Foot Fuß
water watter water Water~Woter Wota Wasser
let lat laten laten~loten lote(n) lassen
eat eat eten eten~äten äte(n) essen
pipe pipe pijp Piep Piep Pfeife
soap saip zeep Seep Seep Seife
door door door Döör Däa Tür
do dae doen doon doone tun
drag dreg dragen dregen~drägen droage(n) tragen
Also note the similarities between Plautdietsch and Eastern Pomeranian
Lowlands Saxon (Low German, "Ostpommersch"), e.g., _-e_ (= _-en_), and
(_kj-_ ~) _tj-_ ~ _tch-_ (= _k-_) before front vowels!
... Im Früdjahr, dat ... der Schnai döüst, dann djäit da Landwürtschaft
lous. Denn waat ... Mess föiet, uff plöüst, Tüffele ware sett,
Sòòmerrogge ... ooer ... denn bet tom ... alles ijesäicht, bet tom ...
Sauma. Håwer, Rogge, Tüffle, oo dann ... na ... Pingstere, denn waad de
Frugge sett, ooer ... Zuckerröüwe plant, o dann de alles denn so im
Saume, denn bààt Höü djemäicht, wi hewwe denn ... öh ... up de Wèèse, us
denn bit Schwèe mågt, bet ... so wi't denn dee wirt Sünn, dann gelt 's
schäin, denn diue 't ni lang, dann haww wi dat Höüs dröüs.
Denn wè et Awend dann tchüng 't wedder na Heúús, dann heww wi Rogge
mäicht, wè 't wedder so wiit wéer, dann heww wi ouk Håwer, Tüffel würd
im Hààbst denn, då heww wi denn dai Tchinne met naume, dai müse sammle
helpe, dann heww wi ... öh ... i de Sette mågt, ümme twèe Zintner, i de
Sacke rinne, dann haat wi e Päierd, da föüd us dat denn na Heúúst, denn
tjeng Kaffoo, Mittach alles up 't Fild.
O wè 't denn im Namiddach wéer, denn hefft dai Tchinner ... öuk
sammelt, da heww wer denn dat Tüffelkröut ... alles toupààtscht, dann
heww wer s' ... sich Füür måkt, da heww wer sich dann i' dise Glut dai
Tüffele rinnelècht, d' heww wer 's braude, dann heww wer s' de Drachen
schtijje låte, im Hààfst denn, mit de Tüffele taua, òàch dann heww wi
dåa ... wè et denn tüüster wéer, denn da dann djüng 't wéer da na Heúús,
ned? Ao, da heww wer acht Taåg denn Tüffele opnaume.
(http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~naeser/probe07.htm)
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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