LL-L "Grammar" 2002.06.10 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 10.JUN.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/lowlands/>
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "David Elsworth" <david_elsworth at hotmail.com>
Subject: etymnology

Dear Ron, Lowlanders

I am particularly interested in the german verbs fragen, schlagen and
tragen
which have the past forms fragten, schlugen and trugen, and also the
past
participles gefragt, gesclagen and getragen.

The other night I was looking at a table of Dutch verbs and I observed
that
the equivalent Dutch verbs vragen, slaan and dragen displayed similar
trends
albeit with certain differences. I have illustrated each verb with its
past
forms as shown below:

VRAGEN   vroegen   gevragen
SLAAN    sloegen   geslagen
DRAGEN   droegen   gedragen

As can be seen, this group of verbs are clearly irregular in Dutch and
all
exhibit the same vowel changes in the corresponding past tense, as do
the
equivalent german verbs. However, in German, whilst schalgen and tragen
are
strong irregular verbs, fragen is in fact a weak verb, which is somewhat
quite puzzling.

Of particular interest is the Dutch verb 'slaan,' whose infinitive seems
to
be the odd one out. Was there ever a point where this verb was written
as
slagen?

I would be interested in hearing from other members as to how the verbs
for
ask, hit and pull, conjugate in their own languages. As far as I can
gather,
past particples in Low Saxon do not add the prefix, 'ge,' to the past
participle.

Regards
David Elsworth.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Dear David,

> I would be interested in hearing from other members as to how the verbs > for
> ask, hit and pull, conjugate in their own languages.

You got some English interference there from the meaning of the cognate
'to drag'.  That would be 'ask', 'hit' and *'carry'.  (_tragen_/_dragen_
'carry')

> As far as I can gather,
> past particples in Low Saxon do not add the prefix, 'ge,' to the past
> participle.

That depends on the dialect.  Some dialects have retained the _ge-_.

Anyway, here are the equivalents in Northern Low Saxon (Low German):

FRAGEN          fraag' ~ fröög'*        (ge)fraagt
SLAGEN ~ SLAAN  sloog' ~ slöög'*        (ge)slagen ~ (ge)slaan
DRAGEN          droog' ~ dröög'*        (ge)dragen

* ~ = occurs in variation with
  oo and öö here are diphthongs: [o.U] ~ [9.Y]/[9.I], ought to be
  written <ou> and <öü>/<öi> respectively.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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