LL-L "Etymology" 2002.06.19 (01) [E/Z]

Wed Jun 19 16:02:30 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.JUN.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.06.18 (06) [E]

Luc Vanbrabant schreef:

> >From Flanders:
> Leegaard= luiaard (E=lazy person)
> leegelooielente= E: extremely slow and languid
> looi = lui (looi zijn) (E lazy)
> ijdelen= ledigen = ielen = legen (E/ to empty)
> Je mag nooit met ijdele handen over het erf lopen (E: There is alwaeys
> something you can do.

Ik meêne a West-Vlams _looi_ glad 't zelde klienkt
as Zeêuws _lui_. De Ollandse /ui/ is in 't Zeêuws
en 't West-Vlams naebie aoltied /uu/, mae in de uut-
zonderlijke gevaollen daer at dat nie zô is, klienkt de
/ui/ as de /eu/ in 't Duutse _Leute_ en nie as in 't
Ollands _fruit_.
Volgens mien è me 't bie 't Oôst-Fries _loi_, _leu_
of _lei_, 't West-Vlams _looi_ en 't Zeêuws _lui_
over krek 't zelde woord mee krek dezelde uutspraeke.

Luc, jie noem _leegaard_ voe 'luiaard' en daedeu 'euge ik
me 't Zeêuwse _leegganger_ dat a in 't Ollands 'lanterfanter'
zou zien. Ok è me in 't Zeêuws de uutdrukkige _ iet over
leeggang doee_ wat a zòvee wil zeie as 'iet op overschot
doee', iet allênig mae doee at er niks aors te doeen is dus.

In 't Zeêuws è me trouwens een keurig onderscheid tussen
_leêge_ (NL 'laag', tweêklank eê) en _leege_ (NL 'leeg', eên-
klank ee).

In 't dialect van 't eiland Walcher kenne ik 't woord _legelik_
vo NL 'waarschijnlijk', 'allicht': "da ku me legelik nie zonder
'im doee" (NL: dat kunnen we allicht niet zonder hem doen).
Is dat nog ieversten anders ok bekend?

Tjuu,

Marco

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From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.06.18 (06) [E]

I forgot to mention that Zeêuws has the word
_loo_ (pronounced as 'low') for low besides
_leêge_ or _laege_. I only know it as a noun,
e.g.:

"Da gos eit n uut de loo": he's got that grass
from the low (piece of land).
"De guus spele aoltie in de loo, daè tenden 't
plein": the children always play in the low (part
of the square), there at the end of the square.

Regards,

Marco

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From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Lazy...

Beste leeglanners,

Regarding "lazy" I'd like to add that in Brabantish "leuzig" is also
used, but usually in the combination "lamleuzig"..."ne lamleuzigen boek"
for example is an utterly lazy (male) person.
Other words denoting laziness are : "lam", "tam" and "loo" (where the oo
stands for a sound like the French word "on" (= "man" (G)), a long nasal
form of an "o").
"Leuzig" makes me think of "deuzig", which refers to a condition when
one has eaten a little too much and he feels a little sleepy
afterwards...slumbering...
The verb that describes this "twilight" zone between being awake and
sleeping is "zuilen".
Bye for now !

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: etymology

As a newly subscribed Northumbrian speaker, could someone help with the
etymology of the word 'Gadgie' (sometimes Gadgee), which means man,
bloke
or fellow. The word is some times used in conjuction with 'ad' or 'owld'
-
as in 'Ad Gadgie' (an old man).

My society believes the word is of Roma (gypsy) origin. Are there any
lowland connections.

Thanks,

Glenn Simpson
Northumbrian Language Society

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Luc wrote (above):

> Regarding "lazy" I'd like to add that in Brabantish "leuzig" is also
> used,

Which has a Low Saxon (Low German) _lösig_ ['l9:zIC] (similar
pronunciation) 'lazy'.

> "Leuzig" makes me think of "deuzig", which refers to a condition when > one has eaten a little too much and he feels a little sleepy > afterwards...slumbering...

Which has a Low Saxon (Low German) cognate with a similar pronunciation
(['d9:zIC]): _dösig_ 'numb', 'sleepy', 'lethargic', 'sluggish',
'stupid', 'weird (in behavior)'.  There is also the verb (/dööz-/)
_dösen_ ['d9:zn=] 'to sleep/nap (not in bed)', 'to be in a stupor', 'to
be absent-minded'.  There are also nouns: _Dösel_ ['d9:zl=] 'ignorant
person', _Dösigkeit_ ['d9:zICka.It] 'ignorance', 'stupidity'.

Glenn wrote (above):

> As a newly subscribed Northumbrian speaker,

Welcome, Glenn!  It is nice to have Northumbrian represented on
Lowlands-L.

> could someone help with the
> etymology of the word 'Gadgie' (sometimes Gadgee), which means man,
> bloke
> or fellow. The word is some times used in conjuction with 'ad' or
> 'owld' -
> as in 'Ad Gadgie' (an old man).
>
> My society believes the word is of Roma (gypsy) origin. Are there any
> lowland connections.

If it is from Romany, I would assume that it is derived from
Anglo-Romany _gadgie_ ['gadji] ~ ['gadZi] 'man', which appears to be a
cognate of Vlach-Romani _gadzhe_ [ga'dZ,e] 'non-Roma (male)' (as opposed
to _rrom_ [GOm] ~ [ROm] ~ _dom_ [dOm] 'Rom(a)' ("Gypsy")).

Apparently, _gadgie_ is used in Scots too
(http://www.sol.co.uk/m/merlinpress/questions.html):

"There are many words used in particular parts of the country that are
distinctive and relate to the history of the language in that area, so
they should not be written off as aberrations or incorrect forms. For
example: gadgie - a man, from Romany, in parts of the country where
there have been many tinker travellers; ..."

A maccaronic poem from the Berwick Advertiser, 1910
(http://www2.arnes.si/~eusmith/Romany/samples.html):

A 'gadgie' when he is a 'chor'
A 'jugal' always fears
For 'jugals' as a rule are kept
By 'gadgies' with big 'keirs'

(gadgie:man, chor:thief, jugal:dog, keir:house)

[_Keir_ appears to come from Mongolic _ger_ ~ _ker_ 'dwelling' -- going
back to the Moghul rule of India?.]

If this and other Romany words were passed on to Northumbrian and Scots,
I would suspect this happened via the "jargon" of tinkers and other
travelling folks, most of which had little or no Roma ancestry but had
had traditional contacts with Roma.  Their "jargon" reminds one a little
of Rotwelsch (now extinct but with loan traces in German dialects), a
German-based "jargon" with Romany and Yiddish elements created and used
among socially marginalized people.

I can't think of a cognate of _gadgie_ in Low Saxon (Low German).

Regards
Reinhard/Ron

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