LL-L "Expressions" 2002.06.23 (01) [F/E]

Sun Jun 23 19:28:58 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 23.JUN.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Stella en Henno" <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Expressions" 2002.06.20 (04) [E]

> From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
> Subject: Inquiry
>
> Beste leeglanners,
>
> I have tried to compose a list of words and expressions that might
> enable us to see basic similarities and differences between our Lowlands
> languages. I deliberately chose words that are both very "universal" but
> that could yet at the same time be interesting in order to oppose
> certain dialects.
> The same 16 expressions have been translated in Dutch, English and
> German, as well as in my local Brabantish, more specifically a version
> that was spoken in Merchtem during roughly the 20th century.
> Sociologically, it could be called "plat-Merchtes" (M).
> If only each subscriber would be willing to translate this in his/her
> dialect (along the dotted line), I'd be very grateful.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Luc Hellinckx

In tafoeging yn Westerlauwersk Frysk, sa folle moolk
"standertfrysk". Der moat fansels keazen wurde by dit soarte fan listkes
(hokker fariant ast nimst), miskien dat oare Friezen oare farianten
keazen
hiene,
ik sil sa u't en troch sels farianten jaan dy't ek moolk binne..

> 1) Het was koud deze morgen (D)
> It was cold this morning (E)
> Es war kalt heute morgen (G)
> 't Was kaat te merreget (M)
> .....
It wie ka^ld fan 'e moarn. (WF)  [a^ = a with a circonflex accent on
top..]

> 2) Ijs, vuur en zon (D)
> Ice, fire and sun (E)
> Eis, Feuer und Sonne (G)
> ..
Iis, fjoer en sinne.   (WF)
...
> 3) Een grauw gelaat (D)
> A grey face (E)
> Ein graues Gesicht (G)
> E graat gezicht (M)
> .....

In skier/grau oantlit/we^zen. (WF)

> 4) Het is zonde ! (D)
> It's a sin ! (E)
> Es ist (eine) Sünde !(G)
> 't Es sunne !(M)
> .....
It is skande! (WF)

> 5) Volgend jaar (D)
> Next year (E)
> Nächstes Jahr (G)
> 't Noste jaar (M)
> .
oar jier/ takom jier (WF)

....
> 6) Achter je rug (D)
> Behind your back (E)
> Hinter deinem Rücken (G)
> Achter a rug (M)
> .
Efter dyn re^ch/ re^ge. (WF)

....
> 7) Vader en moeder (D)
> Father and mother (E)
> Vater und Mutter (G)
> Voor en mojjer (M)
> .....

Heit en mem (WF)

> 8) Naast het huisje (=toilet) (D)
> Next to the toilet (Am. bathroom/restroom) (E)
> Neben der Toilette (G)
> Neuvest 't euske (M)

Ne^st / neist it hu'ske (WF)
[u' = u with accent to the right, sounds here as [y])

> .....
> 9) De deur stond op een kier (D)
> The door was ajar (E)
> Die Tür war angelehnt (?) (G)
> De deu stond op een gerre (M)
> .
De doar stie yn 't tsier  (WF)

....
> 10) Drie meisjes en zes jongens (D)
> Three girls and six boys (E)
> Drei Mädchen und sechs Jungen (G)
> Draa maskes en zes joenges (M)

Trije famkes en seis jonges  (WF)

> .....
> 11) Broer en zuster (D)
> Brother and sister (E)
> Bruder und Schwester (G)
> Bruur en zuster (M)

Broer en suster (WF)

> .....
> 12) Een groot huis met twaalf meiden (D)
> A big house with twelve maids (E)
> Ein großes Haus mit zwölf Diensmädchen (G)
> E groeet oes me tweullef maases (M)
>
In grut hu^s mei tolve (tsjinst)fammen (WF)

 .....
> 13) Ik was het eerste kind (D)
> I was the first child (E)
> Ich war das erste Kind (G)
> Ik waar 't ieste kind (M)
> .....
Ik wie it earste bern (WF)

> 14) De tweede of de derde vrouw ? (D)
> The second or the third wife ? (E)
> Die zweite oder die dritte Frau ? (G)
> Twurn of terre waef ? (M)
> ..
It twadde of tredde wiif?
[now less common, or:]
De twadde of tredde frou? (WF)

...
> 15) Een man en een vrouw (D)
> A man and a woman (E)
> Ein Mann und eine Frau (G)
> Ne mansmins en e vraamins (M)
>
In man en in frou/frommiske (WF)
 .....
> 16) We zijn gaan zwemmen (D)
> We went swimming (E)
> Wir sind schwimmen gegangen (G)
> Me zen weste zweummen (M)
> .
Wy hawwe te swimmen west  (WF)

Henno Brandsma
....

----------

From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject:

Beste leeglanners,

First of all I would like to sincerely thank everybody who sent his/her
translation of my list...the response has been very, very nice so far !
Keep it going folks ! I'll add a detailed reason later on, about how and
why this list was created...
Oh yes, "a grey face" is actually the face of a person with skin that is
not looking very pale *s*...people who are a little sick sometimes have
such a face. Or also people who are old and have strong beard-growth. It
also helps if you spent a lot of time out in the sun during your
lifetime I guess. I might be wrong but I also think Jewish people often
have skin that is looking pretty "grey"...
In another context, the same Dutch word "grauw" is often used in
connotation with clouds and the weather when there's little light.
There's unfortunately also an expression like : "Ik heb hem grauw en
blauw geslagen", which means "That you have hit him so badly that he
turned blue and 'grey'"
That's it for now (I have to spend my internet-time carefully on this
island where there's only a satellite-phone connection with the mainland
*s*).
Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Expressions

Luc,

Although I did not say anything at the time and literally translated
what you gave us, I was as bewildered by "grey face" as Sandy was.  So
thanks for your explanation.

I don't think that "grey" (~ "gray") would be the appropriate
translation in either case.  I suppose that, seen from a Germanocentric
point of view, people in, say, Mediterranian areas, are usually said to
have "olive skin/complexion."  As for the complexion of ill or elderly
people, perhaps "ashen" comes closer to what you mean, which allows
somewhat for natural shades (i.e., it could be "ashen" in various
shades), and might be considered the opposite of "radiant [= healthy]
(skin/complexion)".  These are just my suggestions.  In German it may be
_dunkelhäutig_ (which could be *any* shade darker than "white") and
_(asch)fahl_ ~ _aschgrau_ respectively.  In Low Saxon you may get away
with _gries_ ~ _grau_ ("gray") within clearly defined contexts, though I
am not sure.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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