LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.06.26 (06) [E]

Thu Jun 27 04:11:38 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 26.JUN.2002 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/lowlands/>
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.06.24 (02) [E/German]

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Help needed
>
>Liebe Lowlanders,
>   Wie Ihr wisst, arbeiten wir momentan an kurzen Enfí±£í²µngen in die
>"Lowlands-Sprachen" (unter dem Titel "Lowlands Talk"). Es sollen auch
>kurze Sprachproben dabei sein. Fí² í°¤ie verschiedenen nordfriesischen
>Sprachvarianten stehen glí±Ží»¬icherweise kurze, einsä´ºige Proben bereit,
>die das Nordfriisk Instituut (Nordfriesische Institut,
>http://www.nordfriiskinstituut.de/) online ausstellt, und zwar aus
>Theodor Storms Kinderbuch _Hä·¥lmann_ (*siehe Links unten). Ich wí² í´¥
>gern auch saterfriesische und westerlauwer-friesische Ü¢ersetzungen
>hinzufí±žíµ®.
>Es wä²¥ natí² í¼©ch auch schí¹ºí¼ >wenn wir davon auch Ü¢ersetzungen in die anderen
>Lowlands-Sprachvarianten hä´´en. Falls Ihr den Namen _Hä·¥lmann_ nicht
>í± íµ²nehmen wollt, bedenkt bitte beim Ü¢ersetzen, dass _Hä·¥lmann_
>(_Hevelmann_) -- hier der Name eines ungeduldigen, nie zufriedenen
>Jungen -- auf Niedersä£¨sisch (Niederdeutsch) so etwas wie
>"entzí±Ží»¥nder, kleiner Junge/Liebling" bedeutet (von _hä·¥ln_ ~ _heveln_
>'(ein Baby oder Kleinkind) verhä´³cheln und mit Spielen unterhalten').
>Bitte bedenkt auch, dass dies nicht die einzigen Sprachproben sein
>werden, und dass wir uns freuen wí² í´¥n, wenn Ihr uns auch andere *kurze*
>Sprachproben zuschicken wí² í´¥t.
>   Herzlichen Dank!
>   Reinhard/Ron
>
>
>German (original?):
>"Leuchte, alter Mond, leuchte!" schrie Hä·¥lmann, aber der Mond war
>nirgends zu sehen und auch die Sterne nicht; sie waren alle schon zu
>Bett gegangen.
>(Theodor Storm: _Hä·¥lmann_)
>
Eastern Friesland Low Saxon:
"SghÃ®n, oel mÃ³n, sghÃ®n !" bÃ¶elk HÃ¤velmann (Kne:welke), man dÃ¤i
mÃ³n was
nargends tau sÃ¤in un o:k dÃ¤i ste:erns nÃ¤it; dÃ¤i wassen al Ã¢l up
bÃ¤e gÃ³n.

(If it is not displayed correctly:
sgh[i+accent circonflexe]n, oel m[o+accent aigu]n, sgh[i+accent
circonflexe]
n !  b[o-Umlaut]elk H. man d[a-Umlaut]i m[o+accent aigu]n was nargends
tau s
[a-Umlaut]in un o:k d[a-Umlaut]i ste:erns n[a-Umlaut]it (or: ni), d[a-
Umlaut]i wassen al [a+accent circonflexe]l up b[a-Umlaut]e g[o+accent
aigu]
n.)

I take HÃ¤velmann for a name. As a word with the meaning Ron explained
it is
totally unknown to me. I then would propose "Kne:welke", the diminutive
for "kne:wel", a little boy, loveable but a "real boy".

Kumpelment
Holger

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From: Criostoir O Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.06.26 (02) [E]

A chairde,

Due to work commitments I have only been able to keep
up intermittently with the fantastic and informative
discussions ongoing. I trust you forgive me.

I'd like to throw a new question into the ring if I
may. Long-term contributors will recall my rather
obsessive drive to understand the origin and
development of northern English dialects, specifically
the variants spoken around Nottingham. When I arrived
on the list I had some rather fantastical assumptions
that the variants were the dregs of the Old Norse of
the Danelaw; since then, having learnt swathes of both
Dutch and West Frisian, I can say with certainty that
the Nottingham variants derive almost entirely from a
West Germanic base (although phonology retains
substantial North Germanic remnants, I'm certain).
Vocabulary in particular is heavily influenced by what
appears to be either Zeelandic; grammar is less
obvious.

My question is this: if Nottingham English is
descdended almost entirely from a Franconian or
Ingvaeonic mileau (someone will have to precisely
reiterate the differences to me again, I'm afraid),
does any of it at all descend from the Scandinavian
(presumably proto-Danish or Jutish) spoken in the
Danelaw?

Go raibh maith agaibh!

Chris.

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