LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.05.18 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 18.MAY.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Dear All

with reference to Adelwolf's declaration. If it's real
then it certainly looks like a Lowlands West Germanic
relative, however he uses 'gamal' for old. Are there
any cognates of this in the other non-North Germanic
dialects, or could this be his downfall?

Adelwolf ( no email / no homepage) wrote:
All forst, bidde, forgeven mie for dat Ik schrieve in
user dialekt dat
Je konnen niet forstan ond ik kan niet spreken
Standard Dutsch ond
Nederdutsch ond Englisch . Wie sind om twa hondred lie
ond wonen in
Yozgat. Wie haven en Dutsche Sprak, spreken dat so
wel. Ik denke dat
dit
is en Nederdutsche sprak. Men min elderen konnen niet
lesen ond
schrieven Turkisch ond Standard Dutsch. Ik ben siextig
ond twa jare
gamal. De aldest in de kind. We kiepen werige less lie
hier wam konnen
spreken dat sprak. twelf fra twa hondred. Ik wet niet
wie dit wort men
wie sind in de Turkije, ond jet spreken en Dutsche
sprak. Ik schrieve
dit for dat Ik wille ju to witen dat dar sind de
dutschen ok in
Anadolu.
Wes hel!!!]

Gary

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Dear All

since my last posting have had a chance to look for
cognates of 'gamal' myself, and have found gammelig in
both High and Low Germans. However gammelig in High
German seems to have negative connotations - is this
also true of Low German? And if this is the case it
still seems suspicious to use 'gamal' as a neutral
term with 'aldest' as the superlative. - It sounds a
tad too North Germanic. It reminds me of a site I
found once written in 'modern Crimean Gothic' - a
clever idea, if somewhat misleading.

Adelwolf ( no email / no homepage) wrote:
All forst, bidde, forgeven mie for dat Ik schrieve in
user dialekt dat
Je konnen niet forstan ond ik kan niet spreken
Standard Dutsch ond
Nederdutsch ond Englisch . Wie sind om twa hondred lie
ond wonen in
Yozgat. Wie haven en Dutsche Sprak, spreken dat so
wel. Ik denke dat
dit
is en Nederdutsche sprak. Men min elderen konnen niet
lesen ond
schrieven Turkisch ond Standard Dutsch. Ik ben siextig
ond twa jare
gamal. De aldest in de kind. We kiepen werige less lie
hier wam konnen
spreken dat sprak. twelf fra twa hondred. Ik wet niet
wie dit wort men
wie sind in de Turkije, ond jet spreken en Dutsche
sprak. Ik schrieve
dit for dat Ik wille ju to witen dat dar sind de
dutschen ok in
Anadolu.
Wes hel!!!]

Gary

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Gary,

> however he uses 'gamal' for old. Are there
> any cognates of this in the other non-North Germanic
> dialects, or could this be his downfall?

That and _twa_ ('two'), _less_ ('less', 'fewer'), _kiepen_ ('keep'),
_jet_ ('yet'), _hel_ ('whole', 'healthy'), to mention but a few.

(Modern Low Saxon/Low German would have something like _old_, _twe_ ~
_twei_, _minn_ ~ _weniger_, _(bi)beholen_, _liekers_, _welig_ ~
_(ge)sund_ respectively.  The words he uses would not even pan out in
Middle Low Saxon.

I believe _Low Saxon _gammelig_ ('stale', 'rotten') and _vergammeln_
('to become stale/rotten/decayed'), which were adopted into German, are
either relics or Scandinavian loans.  Who knows?  If those people used a
cognate, it would most likely be *_gammel_ (as in Danish/Norwegian), not
Swedish _gamal_.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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