LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.19 (02) [E]

Sun May 19 22:20:09 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.MAY.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: "Etymology" 2002.05.18 (04)

Hi, Lowlanders,

Niels niels.winther at dfdsseaways.com wrote:

...One of the entries under _koekeloeren_ given by
Van Dale Groot woordenboek der Nederlandse taal:
----
1599 'een leven als een slak in zijn huisje leiden',
want het is een afleiding van kokeloer, kokerol (slak),

     werkeloos thuis of in afzondering zitten.
----
This is exactly the meaning as it is used in
Danish _kukkelure_ and Swedish _kukelura_ :
sitting at home doing nothing, not getting out.

Regionally _kukkelur_ is also used for 'cockle' in Norwegian.

Probably it was borrowed from Dutch or Low Saxon at a time
when the snail-metaphor was still evident....

There is a "Kokolores" or "Kokulores", seldom used in upper German,
meaning
"nonsens".

Regards and nice days

Fiete.

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From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: Lowlands Words.

Can anyone help with a couple of queries about words which might be
cross-lowlands loans.

1. Shetlandic _crang_ means a corpse, carcase or carrion. There are two
other words in Shetlandic which might be translated 'corpse' - _corp_
which usually means a human corpse, and _ro_ [ro:] which specifically
means carrion. _Corp_ is a Scots form which CSD explains as an erroneous
singular from Middle English _corps_; _ro_ Jakobsen derives from an
unmutated form _*hra/_ of ON _hrae_, a carcase. _Crang_ is apparently
derived from Dutch _kreng_, carrion, which has been borrowed into
English in the sense of the carcase of a whale from which all the
commercial matter has been stripped.

Of these words, _crang_ is the only one which I am familiar with in
everyday speech. _Corp_ strikes me as probably old-fashioned in Shetland
speech - most people nowadays would probably say 'corpse' or 'boady'
(/bo:di/ [bo at di], distinct from /bOdi/ [b8(:)di], person.) _Ro_ is a
word I have only seen in writing, and it appears to be common in regions
other than my own. However, there also appears to be a semantic
distinction between this and _crang_, which I will attempt to represent
in English as:

corp - a human body
ro - carrion (but can be used as a countable noun, with a plural form
'roes')
crang - the carcase of a dead animal

My query concerns _crang_, and the meaning of the Dutch _kreng_ which my
- very small - Dutch dictionary translates as 'carrion', without any
reference to the technical meaning of a whale carcase. Someone recently
told me that this technical meaning was the original meaning of the
word, and the more general Shetland meaning derived from this - implying
that the word had come into Shetland as a result of the whaling
industry. But I wondered whether it was likely that, if the word has a
more general meaning in Dutch, it would have been imported with a
restricted meaning into Shetlandic and then widened out again into a
general meaning. In other words, I wonder whether the word is in fact an
earlier import from a Lowlands language - which would explain the more
general meaning - and that the explanation I was given is an example of
etymological mythopoeia - that is, the assumption that, because _kreng_
specifically means 'whale carcass' in English, that this must be the
original meaning of the word, and that the Shetland meaning must be
derived from this through association with the whaling industry. (There
is, it seems to me, a popular tendency to explain every word similarity
between languages or dialects as owing to associations - for example,
when I told someone that Shetland 'nittie' (latrine) was also used by
Geordies (netty), he immediately assumed that Shetlanders would have
learned it from Geordie fishermen; and some people on another list
recently went down a complete blind alley trying to derive a Shetland
word from a completely unrelated Scots one on the basis of Norse
influence in Galloway.)

At any rate, it would be interesting to know just what is the semantic
scope of _kreng_ and any cognates in the Lowlands languages.

2. Recently, a well-known Scots writer and educator revealed her
criterion for distinguishing Scots from English -  she tells people
that, if they use the word 'pinkie', then they are speaking Scots.
(Colin Wilson and I noted that we don't speak Scots then - in the North
East, the word is 'crannie', and to us, 'pinkie' sounds like rather
genteel Scottish Standard English.) However, watching The New Adventures
of Superman last evening (you've no idea the indignities I have to
suffer in the pursuit of linguistic enlightenment!) I heard Lois Lane
describe the appendage as 'pinkie finger.' Is this word common in
America as well? In other words, is the aforesaid writer talking even
more complete nonsense than I had supposed?

3. Does anyone know whether the word 'O"versa"tta' (Swedish form) and
its cognates in the Nordic languages ultimately derives from German or
Low Saxon, and if so, when it would have come it?

John M. Tait.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

John Magnus:

> I heard Lois Lane describe the appendage as 'pinkie finger.' Is this
> word common in America as well?

Yes.  At least I have heard it used in the States, not infrequently, not
only in talking to children, but in "serious" talk among adults.  I
suppose that makes the U.S. a Scots-speaking country.  At last we know!

According to the Oxford Dictionary, it is a "U.S. & Scot." word, from
"dial. 'little finger', from _pink_ 'half-shut (eye, etc.)'" Huh?!

> 3. Does anyone know whether the word 'O"versa"tta' (Swedish form) and
> its cognates in the Nordic languages ultimately derives from German or
> Low Saxon, and if so, when it would have come it?

Sorry I don't know, but I'd like to "an' all."  I can tell you that
German has _übersetzen_, Low Saxon of Germany _översetten_ ~
_öbersetten_ (in the extreme west _vertalen_, _vertaoln_, etc., cf.
Dutch _vertalen_, from _Taal_ 'language'), and Danish _oversætte_, all
literally meaning "to overset" = "to translate."  I've long wondered
about the source of Scots _owreset_, etc.  If it came from German it
would have to be a rather recent loan, since Scandinavian borrowed from
German rather late, long after "Low German."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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