LL-L "Help needed" 2002.11.10 (06) [E]

Sun Nov 10 16:35:44 UTC 2002

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.11.09 (01) [E]

>From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: LL-L Help needed
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>I have come across an inscription, and am curious as to what it means,
>and what the language or dialect is.  The plaque is just above the door
>of 44 Wood Street, Shotley Bridge, Consett, Durham (that is the usual
>place for datestones in this part of the world).  The plaque bears the
>date 1601, and the partially legible inscription:
>
>... RE...
>...OHN.ALLE.SORG.WAS
>...LEICH.IN.DEIN EM
>... .TREV W.VND E[or L with short middle bar]LEISI...
>...D.DVEST.WAS.DIR.BEE[or L with short middle bar]OHL...
>
>With best wishes to all,
>
>Pat
>--
>Pat Reynolds
>pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
>   "It might look a bit messy now, but just you come back in 500 years
time"
>   (T. Pratchett)
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Help needed
>
>Hi, Pat!
>
>Let me get the ball rolling by saying that the fragment looks like German -
-
>and I don't mean "Low German":
>
>... RE...
>?
>...OHN.ALLE.SORG.WAS
>...without.all.worry*.what
>...LEICH.IN.DEIN EM
>...(gleich?=)like/right/immediately.in.thy(ne) ?
>... .TREV W.VND E[or L with short middle bar]LEISI...
>... ?  ? (=part of name? Trevor?) and (Eliese? Eleisia? Eleison?)
>...D.DVEST.WAS.DIR.BEE[or L with short middle bar]OHL...
>...?.(thou)dost**.what.thee.(befohlen = commanded?)
>
>* cf. French "Sans souci" ("Without Worry"), a commonly used name for
German
>houses and estates in the 17th and 18th centuries, also the name of a
palace
>in Potsdam
>
>** In German of that time this would be _(du) tuest_ ("thou dost" = modern
>singular "you do"), but in some German dialects, including those with
>Lowlands Saxon (Low German) substrates (beginning about the time of the
>building of that house), it might be _duest_ (< LS _dayst_ from _doun_ 'to
>do').
>
>I've either started helping you or leading you astray, Pat.
>
>Interesting to find that inscription in that place!
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Hello Pat !
For the first rows I agree with Ron's translation but I have a different
idea for the following:
>...LEICH.IN.DEIN EM
>... .TREV W.VND E[or L with short middle bar]LEISI...
>...D.DVEST.WAS.DIR.BEE[or L with short middle bar]OHL...
....(g?)leich in Deinem = ...like (or: at once; similar to) in Your...
treu W.(?) und fleiszig... = ...faithful (loyal, true) and diligent...
....D. (?) tust was Dir befohlen = ...do what you are commanded to...

Kind regards
Holger

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Help needed

I pretty much go along with our friend Holger (above).  I would like to add
the following:

It could be TREVW as one word in the spelling of that time for 'true',
'faithful', 'loyal' (and the respective adverbs).

Pat, is there by any chance a bar/macron above the S in FLEISI...?  This
would be one of the ways people at that time would write a double letter,
including SS (with in in-caps mode stands for <ss> and <ß>).

So, so far I read it as follows (with supposed missing letters in square
brackets):

[G]LEICH.IN.DEINEM
... .TREVW.VND.FLEIS[S]I[G]
[VN]D.DVEST.WAS.DIR.BEFOHL[EN]

AS/LIKE/SOON.IN.THYNE. ...
... .TRVE/FAITHFUL/LOYAL.AND.DILIGENT
AND.DOST.WHAT.WAS.THEE.COMMANDED

Does this get you any closer?  Do you know anything about the History of the
house with that German plaque?

Good luck!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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