LL-L "Festivities" 2002.10.01 (01) [E/LS/S/German]
Lowlands-L
admin at lowlands-l.net
Tue Oct 8 15:04:48 UTC 2002
======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 08.OCT.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net> Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
You have received this because have been subscribed upon request. To
unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================
From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Delectables" 2002.10.03 (08) [E/LS]
>From: Floor en Lyanne van Lamoen <f.v.lamoen at wxs.nl>
>Subject: LL-L "Festivals" 2002.10.02 (11) [E]
>
>> From: Eldo Neufeld <greneuf at interchange.ubc.ca>
>> Subject: LL-L Festivals
>>
Of
>course among the sweets that are given to children at "Sint Maarten" -
>known in mostly northern parts of the Netherlands - are "pepernoten" as
>well, but they don't play a key role.
>
>St. Maarten was discussed on this list in Nov 1996. Let me quote a small
>Grunnens LS song that was posted then by Erik Springelkamp:
>
> Mien lutje lanteern
> Ik sai die zo geern
>
> Ik loop langs de stroat'n
> da ken ik nait loat'n
>
> Mien lutje lanteern
> Ik sai die zo geern
>
>Groeten,
>Floor van Lamoen.
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn sassisch at yahoo.com
>Subject: Festivals
>
>Here is a translation of Floor's Groningen Lowlands Saxon lantern song into
>Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low German) from not that much farther east across
>the NL-DE border:
>
> Mien lí²"í´ªe Lanteern,
> Ik seh di so geern.
>
> Ik loop langs de straat'n.
> Da' kann ik nich laat'n.
>
> Mien lí²"í´ªe Lanteern,
> Ik seh di so geern
>
>The difference is mostly orthographic (Dutch- vs. German-based). In many
>dialects _she_ would be _seih_ [za.I] too.
>
>Rough translation:
>
> My little lantern,
> I love seeing you.
> I walk down the streets,
> Just don't want to stop.
>
> My little lantern,
> I love seeing you.
>
>Kumpelmenten,
>Reinhard/Ron
Moin Floor, Ron and all !
The song You call a Grunnens (Groningen) one is known to me as a genuine
text from the Eastern Friesland author Greta Schoon who composed it for the
children (and together with them) during her working in a kindergarden.
Completely it reads
(unfortunately in the odd German based orthography):
Mien lu"ttje Lantern, ik hebb Di so gern,
Du danzt do"r de Straten, Du kannst dat nich laaten.
Ik mutt mit Di lopen, mutt singen un ropen.
Mien lu"ttje Lantern, ik hebb Di so gern.
---
Mien lu"ttje Lantern, ik hebb Di so gern.
Du Wind laat dat susen ! Krup achter de Husen,
krup achter de Dieken, fandaag must Du wieken.
Mien lu"ttje Lantern, ik hebb Di so gern.
----
Mien lu"ttje Lantern, Du glaist as een Steern.
Daar tinkelt gien Maandje, daar krait uns kien Hahntje,
danz wieder, danz wieder ! Ik sing immer blieder:
Mien lu"ttje Lantern ik hebb Di so gern.
An English translation of the contents:
My little lantern I love You so much
You dance through the streets, You cannot stop
I must go with You, must sing, must shout
My little...
My little...
You, wind, stop blowing, hide behind the houses
hide behind the dikes, today You must leave.
My little...
My little lantern You glow like a star
no moon-y is twinkling no cock is crowing
dance further, dance further ! I chant still
brighter
my little lantern I love You so much.
Kumpelmenten
Holger
----------
From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Festivities" 2002.10.07 (06) [E]
I know the St. Martin-tradition from the Lower Rhine
area near Glabbeek/Moenchengladbach where I spent some
time in my childhood but in my native Rendsborg in
Slesvig-Holsten this tradition is unknown, instead we
have the "Rummelpott", celebrated at New Year's Eve in
a similar fashion but we don't have lanterns, instead
we use a bladder stretched over a bowl (or a bigger
'pott') and it is used to create a particular sound
while the children go around in the early evening and
request "bunschers" (sweets) and sing songs, most of
them in Low Saxon. This tradidition is known in the
whole of Southern Jutland down to, as far as I know,
Hamborg.
----------
From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Festivities" 2002.10.07 (06) [E]
I grew up between the Harz mountains and the Weser river; we used to go from
door to door and sing, and receive sweets and other goodies, basically to
shut us up and make us go away! There's one Lower Saxon Martin song I
remember, but as usual, I don't know how to spell it "correctly":
Matten Matten Abend,
de Äppel un de Beren,
dat Himmelreich is upgedaan,
da woll'n wer alle rinnegaan,
an diesen Matten Abend.
Southern Lower Saxony is very Protestant; therefore, while in the southern
regions of Germany and also in North Rhine-Westphalia, which is mainly
Catholic, St. Martin songs and traditions refer to the fellow who split his
coat, where I come from the meaning has shifted. Even almost 40 years ago,
most of the songs we sang would refer to Martin Luther instead (whose
birthday was November 10th; I seem to remember that was also the day we did
our singing). The standard was:
Als Martin noch ein Knabe war (or, frequently: Als Martin Luther ein Knabe
war),
da hat er gesungen so manches Jahr
vor fremder Leute Türen,
vor fremder Leute Türen.
Actually, my friends and I sang my new and improved version: "vor fremder
Leute Türen, ganz ohne Starallüren". But I doubt that that has become a
tradition...
While, in other parts of Germany, walking with lanterns is a St. Martin's
thing, we did that all through the fall whenever we felt like it; it had no
connection with St. Martin's Day whatsoever that we were aware of.
Regards,
Gabriele Kahn
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon
Gabriele:
> While, in other parts of Germany, walking with lanterns is a St. Martin's
> thing, we did that all through the fall whenever we felt like it; it had
no
> connection with St. Martin's Day whatsoever that we were aware of.
Same thing up in urban Hamburg, Gabriele. I wouldn't even have known what
you were talking about had you said "St. Martin" when I was a child. We
were able to do _Laternelaufen_ (G) or _La(n)teernlopen_ (LS) anytime in the
fall, whenever it wasn't raining, when our parents would allow it, and
whenever an adult or late-teen chaparone for the little ones could be scared
up.
Apparently, in some places outside the urban area, even still within the
state of Hamburg and _umrum_ (Missingsch for "roundabout"), Martinmas had
not yet been forgotten. Our own Clara Cramer-Freudenthal writes about this
from her childhood in the Old Land (Olland), and something about it is
posted at her site: http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/kramer/, namely "De
Martinsdag / Martinmas"
(http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/kramer/martinsdag.htm).
Grötens,
Reinhard/Ron
----------
From: Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Festivities" 2002.10.07 (06) [E]
Dear Tom, I forgot to answer you second question. Of course Nikolaus is
still on the 6th of Dec. and has not been replaced by Santa. In Germany
He accompanied by Knecht Ruprecht, and in Austria by the Grampus, two
mean characters who put naughty children in the sack they carry around
with them. According to the myth the naughtiest children are
subsequently beaten. Merry Christmas.
Daniel
----------
From: George M Gibault gmg at direct.ca
Subject: LL-L "Delectables" 2002.10.03 (07) [E/S]
Fellow Lowlanders,
You remind me of the first verse of the Scottish Ballad "Get Up and Bar The
Door" to wit:
"It fell aboot the Martinmass time
And a gay time it was then oh
Whan oor guid wife got puddins tae mak
And she biled them in the pan oh
Fall the riddle fall the riddle fall the riddle aye doh"
Sadly, no recipe!
Best to all George
==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
More information about the LOWLANDS-L
mailing list