LL-L "Resources" 2002.10.15 (09) [E]

Tue Oct 15 22:55:39 UTC 2002

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 15.OCT.2002 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because have been subscribed upon request. To
 unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Mike-club <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2002.10.13 (09) [E]

Good luck, Tom!
Isn´t it a sad state of affairs, though, Ron, for a language
of several tens of millions of speakers even as recently
as 50 years ago?
Mike Wintzer

THE FOLLOWING QUOETS EDITED BY ME...M.W.

> From: Thomas Byro <thbyro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Learning Plattdeutsch
>
>...The pressure against using the language was
> enormous in my family. Then too, the language of instruction in school was
> in Hochdeutsch.  I remember the misery of some of my friends who only
spoke
> Plattdeutsch as we entered school because they could not understand the
> teacher...
>...Can  anyone recommend any books or other learning materials so that I
can learn
> the language again?  Preferably the dialect spoken in the Rahden area?
>
> Tom
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Reources
>
> Tom,
>
> I am afraid there is no textbook in English yet.  I also doubt that you
will
> find any textbook for the exact dialect your ancestors spoke.  If you can
> read German, I recommend the book I recommended Gary Taylor a little while
> ago (16.AUG.2002 (01)):
>
> <quote>
>
> For your purposes I'd recommend the following:
>
> Marianne Kloock & Ingo Viechelmann, _Uns plattdüütsch Spraakbook :
>    Texte to'n Sülvstlehren dörch Lesen, Snacken un Schrieben mit
>    Grammatik : op hooch- un nedderdüütsch | auf hoch- und
>    niederdeutsch_,
>    Hamburg: Helmut Buske Verlag, 1989, ISBN 3-87118-907-3.
>    Revised edition 1996: 190 pp. ISBN 3-87548-134-8, hardbound,
>    Euro 16.80;
>    cassette 70 min. ISBN 3-87118-908-1. Euro 19.80
>
> It's not fantastic (what is?)...

----------

From: Mike-club <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2002.10.13 (09) [E]

Tom wrote and Ron answered (edited):

> From: Thomas Byro <thbyro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Learning Plattdeutsch
>
>...The pressure against using the language was
> enormous in my family. Then too, the language of instruction in school was
> in Hochdeutsch.  I remember the misery of some of my friends who only
spoke
> Plattdeutsch as we entered school because they could not understand the
> teacher...

WHAT ABOUT UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS? THEY GUARANTEE
THE RIGHT TO CULTURE AND LANGUAGE!

>...Can  anyone recommend any books or other learning materials so that I
can learn
> the language again?  Preferably the dialect spoken in the Rahden area?
>
> Tom

TOM, GOOD LUCK!!! I WISH I HAD YOUR
COURAGE AND MOTIVATION.

> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Reources
>
> Tom,
>
> I am afraid there is no textbook in English yet.  I also doubt that you
will
> find any textbook for the exact dialect your ancestors spoke.  If you can
> read German, I recommend the book I recommended Gary Taylor a little while
> ago (16.AUG.2002 (01)):
>
> <quote>
>
> For your purposes I'd recommend the following:
>
> Marianne Kloock & Ingo Viechelmann, _Uns plattdüütsch Spraakbook :
>    Texte to'n Sülvstlehren dörch Lesen, Snacken un Schrieben mit
>    Grammatik : op hooch- un nedderdüütsch | auf hoch- und
>    niederdeutsch_,
>    Hamburg: Helmut Buske Verlag, 1989, ISBN 3-87118-907-3.
>    Revised edition 1996: 190 pp. ISBN 3-87548-134-8, hardbound,
>    Euro 16.80;
>    cassette 70 min. ISBN 3-87118-908-1. Euro 19.80
>
> It's not fantastic (what is?)...

> Cheers!
> Reinhard/Ron
>
RON, ISN´T IT A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS
THAT FOR A LANGUAGE SPOKEN BY
SEVERAL TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
AS RECENTLY AS 50 YEARS AGO; THERE
IS SUCH A MEAGER ("not fantastic") CHOICE
OF SELF-TEACH BOOKS?

Mike Wintzer

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Resources

Mike, Lowlanders,

Of course it's a sad state of affairs!

However -- and this does not really distract from the sadness factor --
there are apparently other textbooks floating around, mostly for German
schools, and there are not tens of millions of speakers but at the very,
very most ten million.  Estimates (in the absence of census figures) are all
over the place.  This is what I say at Lowlands Talk
(http://www.lowlands-l.net/talk/):

<quote>
:: Number of speakers
The number of Lowlands Saxon speakers is not known, since so far there have
been no large-scale surveys. Estimates vary wildly, from 2 to 10 million.
Between 1.5 and 2 million tend to be estimated for the Netherlands.
Estimates for Germany are less specific. Much depends on how language
competence is defined. The number would be large if it included people who
are somewhat conversant and can follow simple narratives, and it would be
even larger if it included those who consider themselves speakers but can
really only manage lexically, idiomatically and grammatically deficient,
German-based, "made-up Platt" (Patentplatt). The number of true native
speakers is small and decreasing. However, there is a fair and perhaps
growing number of North Germans who are proficient in Lowlands Saxon as a
second or "resurrected" language.
</quote>

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================