LL-L "Language survival" 2002.10.17 (10) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 17.OCT.2002 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2002.10.13 (08) [E]

>From: Thomas Byro <thbyro at earthlink.net>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Language varieties
>
>Tom,
>
>If you can point me in the direction of any concrete sources about a Jewish
>language variety based on a Lowlands language, please do so by all means,
>because I have been looking for such information a long time.  I have
>searched through all kinds of materials and collections, have read all
kinds
>of books about Jewish languages (including books in Yiddish and Hebrew),
>have asked on this list and on Mendele (a Yiddish-focused list), and I have
>never come across any evidence of a Continental-Lowlands-based Jewish
>language variety.

Hello Ron !
Let me quote from a today's newspaper essay (Ostfriesische Nachrichten,
Aurich):
...Dar muss ik an de Markten in Auerk denken. An de Saathoffs, de Go"tzens,
Junkmanns, Ju"rgens, Endjers, Wendelings - tell man up. Wat harren de
fo"o"r 'n Prooteree togang. Dat kunn ok 'n Plattdu"tschen hast nich
verstahn, umdat in ho"r Veehannels-Platt ok 'n bu"lt Utdru"cken van de
jo"dsche Hannelslu" mit in weer. Is 'n Jammer, dat dat noit to Papier
brocht is. Nu is 't to laat, dat jo"dsch-ostfreesk Hannelsplatt is
verga"ten...
(When I remember the market-days in Aurich, the ~following several names of
former stock-sellers families~ list them - what kind of talk did they. That
almost wasn't capable for Low-Saxon-speakers because that stock-sellers-
Platt was mixed up with expressions of Jewish tradesmen. It's a pity that
this never has been recorded on paper. Now it is too late. The Jewish-East-
Frisian trades-Platt is forgotten.)
I've heard about this special language used by both Jewish and Non-Jewish
stock-sellers from old people also. Besides this there was a kind of
Yiddish spoken in Eastern Friesland which wasn't Low Saxon based but
heavily mixed. For this some single paper-record exist.
Kind regards
Holger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language survival

Ik dank Di, Holger.  Wenn Du in de Tokumst wat mehr vun de Saak hören
schullst, wöörd' ik Di groten Dank weten, wenn Du mi dat tostüern deest.

Grötens un Kumpelmenten in 't Huus!
Reinhard/Ron

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From: robert bowman <bowman at montana.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2002.10.16 (07) [E]

On Thursday 17 October 2002 17:26,  Marco wrote:
> Finally, a question for Robert Bowman:
> when did your paternal grandmother
> die? I have already found that Jersey
> Dutch was at least spoken fluently untill
> about 1940 by a few last speakers.

I would put it around 1953. I was only five or six at the time, not that my
memory for dates has gotten any better. I think it was personal conservatism
on her part. Her sister, my great-aunt lived quite a bit longer so I was
older when we would visit her. She lived sort of a primitive life in a beach
cottage in Connecticut after her husband died and was the picture of a
crusty
old Yankee.

I was one of those unexpected births, so my parents were born in 1899 and
1904. My father and uncle retained a few words and phrases. They were a
little coy about the translations; when i took German in highschool they
would send me off to school with what were probably some choice words.
Fortunately, or unfortunately maybe, between the dialect and the idiomatic
expressions the Hochdeutsch professor couldn't figure them out.

I regret now that I didn't press for more details and speak more to some of
the older people in the village, but kids are kids. There may have been some
reluctance, too. Although it never really took, many of the place names had
been officially changed during the war, as well as some surnames, and there
was some degree of trying to distance yourself from anything remotely
Germanic.

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