LL-L "Grammar" 2002.09.08 (04) [S]

[Lowlands-L]

=======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 08.SEP.2002 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>, Email: <admin at lowlands-l.net>
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
 =======================================================================
 You have received this because you have requested subsciption. To leave
 the list, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
 =======================================================================

From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Grammar"

> From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2002.09.05 (01) [S]
>
> >Ye div hear this an aa:
> >
> >"Haes ye ony money?"
>
> I hinna heard this ane.

It could be that A'm wrang aboot this - aiblins A'm gittin
mixed up wi the like o "Wis ye..." that's gey uizual.

> >"Hou's A tae git tae Ternent the nicht?"
>
> I hiv heard this, but no aften.

A'm gey shuir o this, but gin the first ane's wrang an this
isna, what's the rule? Is't adae wi'd bein a question-wird?

> I think it's mibbie mair likely that the -s endin haes crept in frae
> habitual/historic present uiss, efter the verb first, an than flittit ti
> afore the verb as weel. Coorse, like ye say, it's haurd ti gaither
> evidence whit wi the wey sae monie Scots writers Anglicises thair verbs
> oniewey.

Ay, it's no aesy, but gin ye keep a ee oot in yer readin an
listenin A think ye'd can settle maist o the richt rules in
the end. A hae tae try an dae mair textual analysis the like
o what A did for Mrs Goudie's Tea Pairty. Ye can leuk at a
text like that an tho the'r inconsistencies ye come across
nae inflections that haes tae be pitten doun tae typos - that
wad suggest that onything that's no conform tae staunart
English grammar can be taen as Scots, no a mistak.

> In onie case, for expository Scots I think ye need a 'standard' - an
> authority. Lorimer wad be as guid as onie, I wad jalouse.

For this novel A'v been thinkin on takkin no juist Lorimer's
grammar but his spellin an aa - or at least a simplified kin
o spellin, but still Lorimer's. But Lorimer's no the last
wird on't - ye canna say that "Hou's A tae..." is wrang juist
wi Lorimer no uizin it (tho mibbie he dis, A dinna ken!).
Houanever, A div think if A canna hae a raiglar spellin, the
saicont best ane is a authoritative spellin, as lang's it's
mensefu. P. Hay Hunter's (see ScotsteXt) is anither ane that
wad dae fine for a staunart as lang's ye teuk oot aa the
needless apostrophes, but Lorimer's is a better staunart whan
ye tak aathing thegither - Lorimer haes the grammar as weel's
the spellin, an a bit uisefu variation, forby.

O coorse, ye'd hae tae ignore the biblical diction -
"sey-as-na-sairlie" wad hae tae be "dinna sey us sair" an aa
that! On the ither haun, what aboot his diacritics? Ye micht
say fowk disna like them, but they wad mean less actors an
reciters soondin their Scots wrang.

> >Aa this leaves me no shuir hou tae deal wi formal
> >poetic diction, the like o this on ScotsteXt:
> >
> >Ken ye Meggie Bridie, O?
> >The bonny Meggie Bridie, O?
> >Whan she pat on her damask goun
> >She leukit like a leddy O;
> >But whan she teuk it aff again
> >She wis but Meggie Bridie, O!
> >
> >Wad this be better written, "Kens ye Meggie Bridie..."?
>
> I wadna hae thocht sae. 'Kens ye' disna soond naitural ti me, for
> example, sae it maun belang ither airts - back ti my threip aboot a
> expository standard.

The trouble is that "Ken ye..." disna soond tae me like
onything onybody wad say aither! But A dout for poetic
diction the'r no a lot ye can dae forby copy the poets,
sae aiblins "Ken ye..." wad be aa ye could write.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

==================================END===================================
 * Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================