LL-L "Language use" 2002.09.12 (04) [E]

Thu Sep 12 20:35:20 UTC 2002

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 12.SEP.2002 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because have been subscribed upon request. To
 unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Language use"

> From: "Frans Vermeulen" <vermeulen.vastgoed at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2002.09.10 (08) [E]
>
> Beste Laaglanders,
>
> Het is een waar voorrecht en genoegen de Schotse taal van Meneer Sandy
> Fleming te mogen lezen en leren, want zij is bovendien zeer zeer
> leerzaam.
>
> Dat is het nu wat ik bedoel met mijn voorstel, dat iedereen best in zijn
> eigen officieel erkende voertaal schrijft, in plaats van in een hopeloos
> verwaterd en zielloos Engels; wie zich aansluit bij een taallijst als
> deze
> hier, moet toch genoegzaam openstaan voor een andere zustertaal en
> leergierig genoeg zijn om ze te leren begrijpen, en, niet steeds de show
> willen stelen met "hoe goed men wel reeds is in het gebruik van het
> Engels"!
>
> Doe zo verder Meneer Sandy, wij Vlamingen verstaan u wonderwel !!!

I find it hard to believe you'd recommend writing in a
language more familiar than English and yet still somehow
"officieel". Such languages surely have neither the
advantage of English in being a world lingua franca, nor
the soulfulness of dialects? It would only make sense to
write them if your audience consists of people who are
either comfortable with the language or want to learn it.

In fact I mostly write in English because most people
wouldn't understand me clearly otherwise. Choosing to
write Scots takes a certain amount of judgement as to
whether those who are interested can all follow the
language clearly (probably the case with tricky
questions on Scots grammar and spelling?). Even with
some subjects in Scots, such as literature and etymology,
I think English is the best choice on this list (not
necessarily in some other situations).

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2002.09.12 (03) [E]

Hi, Erek, Lowlanders,

Erek Gass wrote:
>
> Just a little sad to see references to "American Imperialism".  I'm a
> "realistic" American, and accept that both my nation and its people have
> some flaws (hey, I'll bet that can be said about a few other nations as
> well!).  Before using terms like "imperialism", define the meaning,
> please!  In recent history (my lifetime), I haven't seen the USA take
> over any other nation, if we've been at war, we have helped rebuild the
> nations we fought against, nor have I seen overt aggression initiated by
> the USA.
>
> Propagating and repeating convenient myths about ANY nation or its
> people is unwarranted.  And it seems particularly unfruitful in a
> co-operative, friendly experience such as this group is.  America and
> Americans are just a nation and a people as good, and as defective, as
> most others.

There have been spent thousands and thousands tons of paper in
investigating
this problem,but many American people still don't understand. I'm also
thinking of You, Erek, with friendship and respect, because with those
words You are simplifying this (specially in these days) real global and
important matter.

Imperialism, in this aspect is NOT, by most means, the fear of being
struck by any war-like operation of the US.

But- people fear the
1. economical imperialism of- for instance- *Mac with big ears* and
other
fast-feeders;
2. Euro-American cultural power and monopolism, meanwhile spreading into
the
farest regions of the world by TV e.a. and  "killing"   less powerful,
regional originalities, systems, well-acting cultural *biotops* (and, of
course, on a long sight, linguistic specialties!);
3. the "American Way of  Live", dominated by money, consumption and its
basic rule: You always have to succeed!

I am aware of  simplifying the problem by myself, too, but I don't want
to
cause another ton of paper to be printed on *s*!

Best Regards to our great, well respected friend

Fiete.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Folks,

Whilst these are useful and interesting discussions, going down the road
from language use and survival to world politics goes beyond the scope
of this list.  One way of preventing such digressions is to stay away
from name-calling as much as possible and to bear in mind that this is
an international gathering with lots of toes that can be stepped on.

Whilst we can discuss topics such as language and culture threats, media
domination, state/province/national/international language policies, and
the like, we can do without nation-to-nation finger pointing and
generalizations (even *if* certain conspiracy theories might have Ronald
McDonald be a front for the US secret secret service Bureau for the
Annihilation of Alien Heritage [BAAH], which may explain why he doesn't
have any difficulties getting visas and business licenses).  I know that
sometimes we do not really mean to offend people, so extra caution is
advised when we talk about each other's countries, which does not mean
that one needs to continually walk on egg shells.  Just bear in mind
that many people will take criticism of their countries as personal
criticism.

If you want to help your respective languages and cultures survive, then
please do something about it, and the work ought to begin on the
inside.  Looking for scapegoats and blaming economically successful
multinational entities is easy but never totally justified.  If people
*want* to continue using their languages they would do so and could be
pursuaded to assert themselves linguistically, be it over a plate of
_boerenkool_ or _Bohn'n, Beer'n un Speck_ with a Heineken or Beck's
Lager or over a double-cheese-bacon-lettuce-and-tomato Big Mac with a
can of Coke or Doctor Pepper's.

Just remember that in this forum there's a lot of head room but little
toe room, yet there's plenty of room for all of us.  It's best to both
tread somewhat lightly and to avoid wearing open-toed sandals.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
 * Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================