LL-L "Language change" 2002.09.13 (13) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language change" 2002.09.13 (10) [E]

Dear Lowlanders,

until three years ago, I used to live not so far from Our Ron - in Portland,
Oregon, that is. I was always amused and sometimes slightly annoyed by the
use of "you guys" for a plural address - usually drawn out, "you
guuuuuuuuys", and with a bit of, so, like, totally, a Valley Girl twinge.

But I'll never forget what I heard on my last night in the USA, before
finally moving back to Europe after eight long years. There was this young,
fairly stereotypical, gum-chewing waitress (you know, the "hiiiii, my name
is Tiffany" kind)... and when she brought our food, she actually said:
"Enjoy your guys's dinner"!! This was pronounced as "guises". We're still
quoting her to this day...

Apart from that, I must say I was not terribly happy with Neal's comment,
and I rather suggest we leave political issues aside. I, too, shudder when I
hear "they" used when no plural is called for, but there's nothing wrong
with saying "his or her", writing "(s)he", and so forth. Although female, I
have always naturally thought of myself as a "he"; still, there are many
others who do not, and after many centuries of oppression I think they are
completely entitled to this little courtesy without being called "zealots"
or worse. It's the same kind of courtesy by which we say, for instance,
"Native Americans" instead of "Red Indians" today, and although I am very
keen on correct grammar as are most Lowlanders on this forum, I think people
and their feelings should always come before grammar, and that no one should
be addressed in terms they resent... er, he or she resents, that is.

I do have, however, a pet peeve when it comes to English grammar... I don't
know about Brits, but Americans will say "a visa" when they actually mean a
visum (visa being the plural), or use the word "data" as singular - as in
"the data is transferred".

[Gabriele Kahn]

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language change

Gabriele wrote (above):

> There was this young,
> fairly stereotypical, gum-chewing waitress (you know, the "hiiiii, my name
> is Tiffany" kind)... and when she brought our food, she actually said:
> "Enjoy your guys's dinner"!! This was pronounced as "guises". We're still
> quoting her to this day...

This is now so common that I am inclined to call it "the new standard," so
common that few people even think about it.  What is apparently sub-standard
but not unheard of is "yous guys's" ("yoozguizez").

> I do have, however, a pet peeve when it comes to English grammar... I
don't
> know about Brits, but Americans will say "a visa" when they actually mean
a
> visum (visa being the plural), or use the word "data" as singular - as in
> "the data is transferred".

A peeve of yours it may be, but it's standard now.  You'd be laughed out of
the country if you said "visum" and "datum".  I once said "phenomenon"
outside academia.  People looked around.  "Huh?! Oh, he's foreign."  Most
Americans believe that "phenomena" is a singular form and "phenomenas" is
the plural form.  At the same time they believe that "kudos" and "gyros" are
plural forms and that their singular forms are "kudo" and "gyro"
respectively.  You may not like it, but such is language change.  Few people
will even question it in a few decades' time.  These forms may be
etymologically incorrect, but they make sense in that they fit the English
rule pattern.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.:
> until three years ago, I used to live not so far from Our Ron - in
Portland,

Goodness me! I'm not worthy!

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