LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.09.15 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.09.15 (03) [E]

Hi, Ron and others,

You wrote:
> Nothing to be forgiven.  It's exemplary, and it's great to hear from you.
>
> You may be interested to know that the equivalents of the word "child" has
> neuter gender in Lowlands Saxon (Low German), Dutch (?) and German as
well:
>
> LS: dat Kind  -> dat ~ det ~ it ~ et
> D:  het kind -> het (?)
> G:  das Kind -> es
>
> Why?  Good question, considering that a child's sex tends to be considered
> important at birth or during pregnancy.   I guess it has something to do
> with being a collective term (as opposed to gender-specific "boy/son" and
> "girl/daughter").
>
> Of course, it is interesting to find this in Appalachian, and it raises
the
> question if Appalachian inherited this from a certain English or Scots
> variety or from the "Dutch"/"German" varieties used in the Appalachian
> mountains.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

It's even harder, and I made thoughts  about this for many times (though I
am not involved as far as  "female emancipation" is concerned *s*):

(UG): "das Maedchen" (neutr.), (E): "the girl" and "she", but: (LS): "de
Deern" un "sei" (fem.);

(UG) "der Junge" (male), (E): "the boy" and "he"; and (LS): "de Jung" un
"hei" (male).

Isn't it interesting, a mirror of former social aspects, perhaps?

Regards

Fiete.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pronouns

Fiete,

*All* diminutive derivations of nouns--irrespective of the gender of the
original nouns--have neuter gender in Lowlands Saxon (Low German), German
and Dutch (and I suppose in other Continental Lowlands varieties as well).

German _Mädchen_ and _Mädel_ are derived from _Magd_ ~ _Maid_ (< _maged_),
which has feminine gender.  _Meisje_ is the Dutch equivalent, also
diminutive.  Northern (Low) Saxon /deirn(e)/ _Deern_ ~ _Diern_ is *not* a
diminutive derivation and has feminine gender.

If you derive in the same manner a diminutive form of a masculine gender
noun, such as German _Bursche_ 'lad' or _Mann_ 'man', it too takes on neuter
gender (_Bürschlein_, _Männchen_ ~ _Männlein_, etc.).

This applies to nouns denoting animate and inanimate objects.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: In Slavic languages, diminutive derivations always turn into feminine
gender, even if the stem noun has masculine or neuter gender.  Diminutive
forms therefore say really nothing about gender.

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