LL-L "Folklore" 2003.04.28 (08) [E]

Mon Apr 28 21:57:14 UTC 2003

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From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Folklore

Beste liëglanners,

Regarding the stick like gable-marking, called "mal(le)jan" in Eastern
Friesland, I would like to add that a _mallejan_ in Dutch denotes a
timber wagon.

In Brabantish this cart is called _nen öjts_, and professional loggers
are thus called _öjtsers_. I've never been able to find a decent
etymology for this word btw. If I remember well, Kiliaan (16th century)
has something along the lines of _(h)urts_, but I can't check that out
right now.

On a side-note, very interesting Ron what you mentioned about the common
ancestry of Eurasians and Native Americans. This reminds me of what I
experienced while I was cycling in Qinghai province (Tibetan culture)
eleven years ago. Farmers working in the fields were "shouting" at me in
order to draw my attention but the way they were doing this was
reminiscent of all those Western movies that I had seen as a kid in
which Native Americans rhythmically slapped their mouths while making a
howling sound. It sounded just like that, and they made exactly the same
movements with their hands. I'm quite sure this was not due to their
tv-watching habits, as back then there was hardly a tv in those remote
villages, and if there was one, such movies were not on view.

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: "Reuben Epp" <repp at silk.net>
Subject: LL-L "Folklore" 2003.04.27 (06) [E]

Although I am not well-grounded in the Low Saxon tradition of
crossed horse's heads, in several configurations, mounted on the
gable ends of many Low Saxon houses, I find the following
interesting URL (in German)  to be informative on the subject:

http://www.ehrhorn-nol.de/haus/pferdeko.html

Reuben Epp

> > >rFrom: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> > >Subject: Folklore
> > >
> > >In the (formerly) Saxon parts of Northern Germany (and perhaps also
parts
> of
> > >the Eastern Netherlands), gables of farm houses tend to be crowned with
> > >crossed horse heads, a very characteristic feature of the region.  I
> > >understand that this was supposed to ward off evil spirits.  Can anyone
> > >confirm this?  Also, I wonder how old this feature is.
> > Best wishes,
> > Pat Reynolds

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From: globalmoose at t-online.de (Global Moose Translations)
Subject: LL-L "Folklore" 2003.04.27 (06) [E]

Regarding the crossed horse heads ("Dachreiter") on roofs in Lower
Saxony:
in some areas they tend to face each other, while in other areas they
usually look away from each other. I seem to remember there is a reason
behind this besides local preferences. Does anyone know why?

Regards,
Gabriele Kahn

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Folklore" 2003.04.27 (03) [E]

> From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Folklore" 2003.04.14 (04) [E]

> That reminds me ... a last question on iron for today!  In English,
> metalworking is divided into various smithies, such as 'blacksmith',
> 'whitesmith', and 'goldsmith'.  My Dutch dictionary translates
> 'blacksmith' as 'smid'.  Are there more specific terms in your various
> dialects?
>
> Pat
Hi Pat,

In D we have:
smid, goudsmid, edelsmid,zilversmid, ...
and also, liedjessmid(songwriter, pej.), smoelensmid (dentist, pej.).
For  blacksmith and whitesmith we do not have a special name.

Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Folklore

Luc (Hellinckx) above:

<quote>
On a side-note, very interesting Ron what you mentioned about the common
ancestry of Eurasians and Native Americans. This reminds me of what I
experienced while I was cycling in Qinghai province (Tibetan culture)
eleven years ago. Farmers working in the fields were "shouting" at me in
order to draw my attention but the way they were doing this was
reminiscent of all those Western movies that I had seen as a kid in
which Native Americans rhythmically slapped their mouths while making a
howling sound. It sounded just like that, and they made exactly the same
movements with their hands. I'm quite sure this was not due to their
tv-watching habits, as back then there was hardly a tv in those remote
villages, and if there was one, such movies were not on view.
</quote>

Luc, apart from the North American angle, what you are describing is
very common practice, not only throughout Eurasia but throughout Africa
as well.  There are various permutations and purposes, but I think there
is a common thread.  You will find it in the Middle East and in North
Africa, practiced particularly by women (Arabic and Berber, among
others), sometimes in the manner you described, more often achieved by
tongue flapping, most commonly used as some sort of applause, sometimes
to attract attention.  In anthropological footage I have also seen it
practiced in Sub-Saharan Africa, by men and women.  It may very well be
related to yodeling as well, practiced not only in mountainous regions
but also on plains over wide distances, e.g., among various Tibetan,
Mongolic and Turkic peoples, and also among American cowboys who, like
various Alpine, Saami, Siberian and Central Asian shepherds,
incorporated this calling technique into styles of singing.  There might
be a genealogical reason for all of this.  But it might also have been
developed independently from each other, arising from a need to add some
sort of striking vibrato to the human voice over long distances.

Folks, as for the crossed horse heads (which I find more intriguing as
we go along), isn't there a general horse theme in Old Saxon culture,
perhaps arisen from some sort of ancient horse-centered cult?
Certainly, horses were, if not worshipped, highly revered, and horses
tended to be buried with their owners.  (I read that such a Saxon burial
was recently unearthed in England.)  Also, there is the widespread
(white) horse theme throughout Germany's Lower Saxony, Westphalia and
the Saxon parts of the Netherlands, especially in coats of arms, city
and state emblems, flags, etc.  Is this also a common theme in England?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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