LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.12 (01) [E/LS]

Tue Aug 12 14:21:35 UTC 2003

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L O W L A N D S - L * 12.AUG.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject: "Etymology"

> From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Fieteding at gmx.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.08 (03) [LS]
>
> Moin, Holger,
>
> Du schreevst:
>
> > > > From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
> > > > Fan Dīn "Leeigvoaagel" heb ik no nōit höört un wäit ōk niks wat....
> > Nē, föör 'n kūkūk heb 'k dat wōrd no nōjt hööert, man 't mağ wēsen, dat
't
> > wat mit "lāj" tau daun het, wat up düütsk "faul" bīdüd. Dan was dat 'n
> > "lâj
> > fööğel", tau lāj tau 't sülvenst ūtbröyden fan sīn aier.
> > (Un mit "lāj" un "lâj" hebben wī glīk no wat föör 't tēma "phonology".)
> > Kumpelment
> > Holger
>
> Dat lücht' mii bithertau an meersten inn!
> Denn koomt dat an 'n Innen uut Diin Rabeeid!
>
> Dat woord (EFLS): "laj" un' dat Ingelte (E): "lazy" kunnen 't sülvigt
> Oorsprong hebben?!
> In uns LS-Dialekt kenn ick dat ne.
>
> Wees bedankt!
>
> Greutens
>
> Fiete.
> Subject: Etymologie
> Lowlanners, specially Holger;
>
> (English below)
>
> wo ick Dii jüsst mool foot heff, kann 'ck Dii  wat froogen, watt mii all
> siit längere Tiid in 'n Kopp 'rüm geiht:
>
> wiesau heeit (LS): "[Buuern-]Hoff", (UG): "[Bauern-]Hof", (E): "farm
[area]"
> opp Diin (EFLS): "Plaats"?
>
> Kloor- datt Woord koomt von (UG): "Platz", (E): "place" aff, un wii seggt
in
> uns Dialekt ook aff un ann (LS): "Hoffsteel", (UG): "Hofstelle", (E):
> "farm-place", mann meist jümmer inne Meeint von "lütt" (E): "small".
>
> Is dat Frees' schen Infloot, or koomt dat von 't Hollandsche?
>
> ----------
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Fiete:
>
> Nederlands/Dutch:
>    _plaats_: site, place, spot, situation, location
>    _(boeren)hoeve_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _hofste(d)e_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _boerderij_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>
> Afrikaans:
>    _(boere)plaas_: farm, rural estate
>
> Westerlauwer ("West") Frisian:
>    _boerepleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _boupleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _pleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>
> Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low German):
>    _Plaats_ (~ _Platz_): place, spot, location, specific location (e.g., a
> port);
>    Eastern Friesland: farm, rural estate, homestead
>
> Oxford English Dictionary (online):
> [ME. place, a. F. place (11th c.) = Pr. plassa, Sp. plaza, Pg. praça, It.
> piazza, med.L. placia:late L. type *plattia for classical L. platea, broad
> way, open space, ad. Gr. plateia (sc. hodos) broad way. The L. word had
been
> already taken into Old Northumbrian in the form plæce, plætse, rendering
L.
> platea of the Vulgate; but the history of the current word begins with the
> adoption of the F. place in sense 2, the mod. use in 1b. being a more
recent
> borrowing from the Romanic langs. From the latter came also MDu. plaetse,
> Du. plaats, MHG., Ger. platz, MLG. plas, LG. plâts, plâtse, Icel. pláz
(13th
> c.), Sw. plats, Da. plads. Welsh plâs is app. from ME. Place has
superseded
> OE. stow and (largely) stede; it answers to F. lieu, L. locus, as well as
to
> F. place, and the senses are thus very numerous and difficult to arrange.
>   With the doubled t of late L. *plattia, cf. the similar phenomenon in
> *plattus PLAT (with which platea was prob. associated); also in *pettia
> PIECE, *pccus PIKE, *pppa PIPE, etc.]
>
> > Is that Frisian or Dutch influence?
>
> Perhaps we've got to be careful here and not think in terms of today's
> nations and countries so much.  My hunch is that _plaats_ 'farm' is not
due
> to Western influence but is due to Eastern Friesland (and its Frisian
> heritage) belonging to the region in which this meaning applies, most
likely
> in which this meaning was *preserved*.  We need to consider the
possibility
> that its absence in some other LS dialects could be due to *German*
> influence.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Moin Fiete !
Dat läest tau föörderst: Tau Dīn fróeğ um dat wōrd "plóts" het Reinhard ja
al mäistbest antwōrt't, dor wil ik nū niks mēer achteran setten.
Man tau Dīn "Leeigvoaagel" is mī no wat in 't sin sğōten:
dat kun näit blōt fan "lāj" kōmen man ōk fan "läigen" (düütsk: "lügen",
engels: "to lie"). Dan was däi kūkūk 'n "läiğfööğel" - dat lüd ja al hóst sō
as Dīn "Leeigvoaagel". 'n fööğel, däi annern anlüğt un bīdrüğt (mit sīn aier
in fröem nüsten).
Ik sal mī 'n mól umkīken, of ik dor tau no worens wat ūtfinnen kan, dan lót
'k wēr fan mī höören.
Kumpelment
Holger

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