LL-L "Perception" 2003.02.07 (09) [E/LS/Cornish]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 07.FEB.2003 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Perceptions" 2003.02.07 (01) [E]

Criostoir a screfas:

>Because of my (Nottingham) accent, I usually get referred to as
"English" -
>especially here in Derry - which grates after a while. I see myself as
>Irish
>and Cornish (Cornish mother, Irish father, grew up/lived in Nottingham,
>Ireland, Cornwall, Nottingham, Ireland, Australia, Ireland in that
order) >in
>equal measure - binational, if you will. If people call me "just Irish"
>that's fine. If people call me "just Cornish" that's fine too. In
Australia
>I was "a pom" no matter how much I protested...
>You're right about the nationality/national identity difference,
though. My
>wife is an Australian (with an Australian accent) with dual Irish and
>Australian citizenship. Yesterday she received her first "go back to
your
>own country" remark in Derry. She took great relish in retorting that
"her
>own country" was Ireland and that she had the passport to prove it.
>Criostóir.

Car vy,
Ea, gwra y leverel dhedhans y, Criostóir!! My ynwedh yw a dhevedhyans
kemyskys, ha nynj ues whans dhym a egery whedhel ow bewnans vy pesquyth
may fen govynnys a ble fedhen vy ow tos.
Gans oll ow holon vy,

(My friend,
Yes, you tell them, Criostóir!! I, too, am of mixed origine and I have
no wish to explain the story of my life everytime I`m asked where I come
from.
Yours, sincerely.)
Dan

Reinhard/Ron,

Jaa, ik kan di daar good verstaan, wat dat as moderator manchmaal swaar
to seggen is, wo dat meent is, mid de sarkasmus op en internatjonalen
list. Also maak di daar man keen kop över. Ik hef daar ook woll en
rechten keer-di-an niks, daar kanst een op laten.

Di ook en scöne tiid,

Dan

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From: John M. Tait <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Perception" 2003.02.06 (09) [E]

Criostoir a screfas:

 think that there are two further things to be pointed out about the
Scots/Scotch discussion, both of which have been touched on by Sandy, so I
hope he won't think I'm just repeating what he said.

Firstly, as Sandy says, a lot of Scots do use the word 'Scotch' - for
example, 'Broad Scotch' where we would tend to write 'Braid Scots' - and it
is perhaps the people who speak the braidest/broadest Scots/Scotch who are
likely to do this. I don't think it is hard to understand why. Those who
speak Braid Scots (to use the Scots form, for the sake of argument) or for
that matter less 'braid' (but possibly more 'broad'!?) urban Scots, tend to
be those who are least sensitive to protocols - if they had been, they would
no doubt have adopted _the_  protocol - standard English. Therefore, if the
word 'Scotch' has - by whatever route - become part of their natural speech,
they are not bothered by this, and would probably deride any attempt to
criticise their use of the word as middle-class affectation, in the same way
that some Scots speakers deride middle-class English speakers who use Scots
words which are no longer in use in the less tradional dialects, like
'driech' (a common enough word in natural Scots up here, by the way.)

Secondly, again as Sandy says, the form 'Scotch' is a natural development in
English phonology. Many years ago, Dorothy L. Sayers complained about
Scottish sensitivity to 'Scotch', maintaining that 'Scotch' was the English
form of the word and 'Scots' the Scots form, and I think she had a point.

At any rate, it would be ironic if we were to castigate English speakers for
using an English form of a word which is also used by broad Scots speakers!
(None of this, however, alters the fact that 'Scots' is the form which we
should use generally in Scots writing, and presumably in Scottish English as
well.)

(BTW - Sandy - laver bread???)

John M. Tait.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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