LL-L "Names" 2003.02.21 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: lingoman at webtv.net <lingoman at webtv.net>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.20 (01) [E]

Ron, I have to agree with William Parker that Frankfurt is the only form
now used in the English-speaking world.  There is indeed an English
form, but it is Frankfort with a t, not Frankford with a d... (Random
House Dictionary of the English Language, 2nd ed., gives the fully
English Frankfort on the Main, Frankfort on the Oder)

Many of these English names are vanishing, for the reasons others
mentioned, and personally I  am not sorry to lose such confusing names
as Leghorn (Livorno!)

Sean Roach

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.20 (13) [E/Irish]

Ron wrote:

"Why would your friend have to have a *German*-based surname? Many
supposedly "German" names are in fact Lowlands Saxon (Low German), including
a lot owned by people on this list, and Brunswick is within the old
Saxon-speaking region,
though just barely, sitting on the southern edge."

Well, that what I suspected and speculated previously - that "Brunswicker"
was not "Anglicised" German but "Germanised" Lowlands Saxon (the "-wick"
suffix gave it away to me), as I described. I wasn't attempting - and would
never attempt - a slur on anyone's language. When you referred to
"Braunschweig" I over-analysed.

Tá brón ormsa do shin - bhi an amadán i mo cheann lá sin! :)

Criostóir.

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.20 (07) [E]


Ron,

"Whenever established English names for foreign places or objects exist I
use
them when I use English and, if in doubt about the readership's knowledge,
give the native versions in parenthesis when writing."

The irony is that with increasing European integration, many older English
forms of foreign-language placenames are no longer used (i.e., "Cossovo" for
"Kosovo", "Salonica" for "Thessaloniki", "Angora" for "Ankara" to name a few
that spring immediately to mind). The only environment one is likely to
encounter these anachronistic terms (Salonica aside) now is on old maps or
19th Century travel guides.

Personally, I have no sadness about that. The indigenisation of placenames
can help prevent confusion. It has happened many times to me that I have
referred to a place by its established English form (e.g., Salonica) and not
been understood, not known the indigenous form, and had to resort to
elliptical description or getting the atlas out!

I always wonder if Germans especially have this problem discussing places
like Transylvania (Erdely, Ardeal, Siebenburgen) with Translyvania, where
the German versions are so drastically different as to present a hurdle to
comprehension (e.g. Cluj/Kolosvár/Klausenburg).

Go raibh maith agat

Criostóir.


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