LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.02.21 (04) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.FEB.2003 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Peter Meylof <p.meylof at planet.nl>
Subject: Nedersaksisch-Anglosaksisch

Moi Reinhard,

Nog ne vroag van mien kaant. Weet ie of d'r ooit oonderzook is doan noar
de verwantskap tussn it Nedersaksisch en it Anglosaksisch? En so joa,
kun ie mie doar wat meer oawer verteln? Dat is nen saak, den mie seer
interesseert.
Alweer nen tiedjen leejn heb ik ne opname heurd, woar ne Engelse student
Oalde Taaln, ne oald-Anglosaksische tekst oetsprak. Ik war knap ferbaast
hoo as dee klankn oawereenkwamn met dee van oons. Vansölfsprekkend was
dee oetspraak ne benoadering. Begriep mie nit krang: Ik kon d'r nit völ
van ferstoan. It hef mien interesse wa wekt, dat köj oe wa veursteln,
nem ik an.
Ik bin seer benewd of ie miskien doar it een of 't aander oawer kunt
verteln.

Goodgoan,

Peter

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From: Jules Roonacker <julesr at itn-logistics.com>
Subject: 'Schild en Vriend' - School - Schip - Schoon - Schavuit - ect.

Dear Friends,

I am a new subscriber with a question referring to a story I remember from
my history lessons in Belgium.

In 14th century Flanders the burgers of the Bruges area organised a revolt
agains the oppresser who, in those days, was the French nobility. Those
terrorists/freedom fighters ( I know,I know bad choice of words) attacked
the foe in their barracks during the night and quietly cut their throats one
after the other. Since this was happening in the dark of the night, an
ingenious way of identifying the right or wrong throat without switching on
the light, was to have the potential victim repeat the words in Flemish
"schild of vriend" (shield or friend). On the premise that only the Flemish
& Dutch can pronounce the 's c h' the proper way, our heros immediately knew
whether they were dealing with a Frenchman and foreign mercenary or their
own.

That night many a last word spoken sounded like 'sshild', 'skild' or a
variation of same. The revolt was a success...

I am telling this story to my young children over and over again to teach
them that it pays to enunciate properly. One day, it may save their lives.

My questions (all related):

Is there any region in the Netherlands or Flemish Belgium where people
cannot pronounce Flemish/Dutch 'sch' properly, i.e. even if their life
depended on it?

How do Afrikaanders negotiate the Flemish/Dutch 'sch' in their daily speech?
Surinaam? West Indies? Indonesia?

Would a foreign mercenary per chance have survived the bloodbath because he
happened to have the same sound in his native tongue?

Appreciate your input

Antwoorden ook in het Nederlands welkom.

Apologise if, as newcomer, I broke some rules here.

Groeten,

Jules.



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R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>>:
Subject: Language varieties

Peter, dat mit Sassisch oen Ingelsch is ook veur mie 'n belangrieke vroag',
maan [moar] veel weet ik doar nich voen af. Dat Oold-Ingelsche was aal
mengeleird, mit Sassisch, Vreissch oen annere sproakn binnen. Dei
Angelsassischn misschonoarn kun'n dei luud' in 't Sassische laand voen jum
eer veurvadders schients goud verstoan.

Folks, Peter reopened the old and interesting question about the
relationship between Old Saxon and Old English, specifically how much and
what sorts of Saxon heritage there is in Old English. Any information would
be welcome.



Jules, please accept my warmest welcome to Lowlands-L on behalf of the
entire List. It is good to hear from you.



Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

(Please choose one or the other.)


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