LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.25 (15) [E]

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From: Jim Gretch <jgretch at ugf.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.25 (11) [E]

Gabriele wrote:

> 1) "I like to lay on the sofa and watch TV" -

That is clearly incorrect, but perhaps

> "Lay down, Sally"

isn't as incorrect as it at first seems.

This could actually be a case of an "understood" reflexive,
i.e. "Lay (yourself) down, Sally."
     "Leg' dich hin, Sally."

Of course, for the resulting position, one should
always use "lying down."

> 2) This one really hurts, and I almost never see it
> applied correctly (except on this forum not so long
> ago): "It didn't used to be this way", or "I didn't
> used to like her".
> How can this not even sound "funny" to those who say that
> instead of "didn't
> use to"?

Remember, though, that in *spoken* colloquial language,
the initial "t-" of "to" colors (colours) the final
"-d" of "used," so the two would sound virtually identical
([ju.stu]).  Because the writers are so "used to" the
combination with "-d," they carelessly add it even
when the past tense is already supplied by the "didn't"
right in front of it.

Jim Gretch
Great Falls, Montana

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From: Ian James Parsley <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Gabriele,

Yep, you've picked out two of my favourite gripes.

However, I guess we'll have to accept that 'lay' and
'lie' will merge in English (much like 'sitzen' and
'setzen' remain distinct in German but both have
become 'sit', at least in the sense of people sitting,
in English).

However our newly-formed Orthography Hell should
indeed be extended to a Grammar Hell include those who
see fit to use 'didn't use(d)'...!!!

My personal gripe numero uno is people saying 'He's
stood over there' as opposed to 'He's standing over
there'. Using the past participle indicates to me that
someone is forcibly holding the person there - which
is somewhat unlikely in most cases.

And then there are people who say 'between you and I'
as a hypercorrection...
And people who say 'Barcelona' with a lisp on the
<c>...

Something about 'cans' and 'worms' springs to mind...

Having said all that, linguistic change is generally a
force for the good (or at least for simplification),
so we all just have to accept it.

Except in the 'Barcelona' case, of course...

Kind regards,

=====
------------------
Ian James Parsley
www.ianjamesparsley.net
+44 (0)77 2095 1736
JOY - "Jesus, Others, You"

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Grammar"

> From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2003.02.25 (08) [E]
>
> Since it seems to be free-for all griping time right now, I'm eager not to
> miss the moment and vent my two chief gripes about violations of
> the English
> language:

What do you mean by "violations of the English language"?
How can a language be "violated"?

The examples you quote just seem to be natural variations.
Or do you mean that the English in grammar books is somehow
"pure"? I'm more inclined to think that grammarians'
recommendations contain things that are worse than anything
you've quoted, such as "my wife and I" where in English it's
much more normal (and historically more supportable) to say
"me and my wife". Or think of Strunk and White's ridiculous
treatment of apostrophe placement in genitive plurals (which
unfortunately is now considered the right way to do it).

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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