LL-L "Names" 2003.02.28 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.27 (08) [E]

From: wkv at home.nl   wim verdoold zwolle netherlands.

Hi,

and lets not forget the word "dalgrond"   land left over after the
peatbogs are developed, the peat is sold, the sand under the peat layers
is mixed with the top soil that used to be on top of the peat.

Any how, a lot of peat bogs were sold as peat and the left over land,
the "dalgronden", were settled by farmers.

Maybe this has something to do with the name Dalman too.

Moi!

wim

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From: corber <corber at shaw.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Names"

Dear Lowlanders;
Regarding the name" England". Is it Angle or Saxen ,obviously meaning "end
land" or "End of Land" ?, Maybe the people that gave that name to England
believed that there was no land beyond England..
   Cornelius Bergen

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From: Allison Turner-hansen <athansen at arches.uga.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.27 (13) [E]

Allison wrote:
> > Dear Lowlanders,
> > The tribal name "Angles", according to two dictionaries I
> > consulted, was Latin, invented by Tacitus. He called them that because
of
> > the angular shape of their homeland, it is said. We know that at some
> > point the Angles called themselves that, hence "English". This seems to
> > me to be quite odd. What was their name for themselves? Why would they
> > adopt an outsider's designation? Could this explanation be a mistake?
> > Perhaps they already called themselves "Angles", but with a different
> > meaning, and Tacitus drew his own false conclusion. If the latter is
> > true, could the name "Angles" somehow be derived from "Ing"? I would
> > appreciate any thoughts you might have on the subject.>

Fiete wrote:

> Perhaps the (G) "Angeln" did, etymologically, belong to Scandinavia, with
> another history of shifting. At Danish times Schleswig-Holstein (where we
> still find "Angeln") was considered to be geographically part of
> Scandinavia. (Allison: what does "Ing" mean- it really sounds
Scandinavic?)
>


Ing is apparently the name of a god.  I have heard this is another name
for Frey- is this true, everyone?  Tacitus called the Ingvaeones that
because they worshipped Ing most.  Ing is an element in many Germanic
personal names, such as Ingeborg, Ingrid, Ingmar, Ingvar, and so on.  The
Ingvaeones were supposed to dwell on the coast of the North Sea as well
as in Jutland, I think.  I'm not too clear about that.
The Herminiones that Tacitus described as worshipping Hermin are
equated with the Saxons.  The name element "Irmen/Irmin" is also common,
as in Irmengard.  I'd love to find out about this god, too, but I don't
think anybody knows.
The god Ist (as in Istvaeones, the Franks) is more mysterious
yet.  He sure isn't mentioned in the Eddas.
I wonder if one or more of these names were from Celtic gods who
became identified with Germanic gods?  It seems possible, since there is
that Celtic substrate in part of the area.
I'm new to this list, so I'm probably bringing up things that
have been thoroughly hashed out before.  So as time permits, I'm looking
through the archives, and I must say I've already read some very
interesting things there.

Allison

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Good one (above), Allison!  Thanks.

> I wonder if one or more of these names were from Celtic gods who
> became identified with Germanic gods?  It seems possible, since there is
> that Celtic substrate in part of the area.

That could theoretically be the case in much of today's
Low-Franconian-speaking areas, since, as I understand, they have a Celtic
past.  All or most of the Saxon-speaking areas, however, apparently have no
Celtic past.  Of course, Southern Germany and much of Austria and
Switzerland used to be Celtic (and still have a lot of archeological proof
of it), but the Germanic-speaking immigrants came from the North where
apparently there was no Celtic past, and they already had those tribal names
before migration.  Of course, there was a lot of export and import in the
god business at the time.  Saxnot seems to be Saxon-specific.  Or is that
god related to others?

> The god Ist (as in Istvaeones, the Franks) is more mysterious yet.  He
sure isn't
> mentioned in the Eddas.

I wonder if there is a connection with the Asatru ("faith of Æsir") belief
systems of Scandinavia and the goddess Ostara ~ Eostre ~ Astarte ~ Esther (>
Easter).

Regards,
Reinhard ~ Ron

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