LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.28 (03) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.FEB.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Hi Ed

you wrote:

'So my question remains.  Is the use of one form or
the other a class
identifier in other places?  Please do not continue to
assume that this
questions represents a class or dialect prejudice on
my part.'

I think it's a mixture of both. Class in that my
mother used to correct me - probably due to being a
woman (no sexism intended, by sociolinguistic fact) -
and according to Labov, trying to better her class by
using a form perceived to be better, however, my
father never did. I have always used 'me and my
*wife*' forms (I'm not married - but just as an
example), and I wouldn't correct other native English
speakers, as to me it sounds perfectly natural, and I
think in Britain, at least, it is a standard form in
every variety apart from Standard English. However, as
an English teacher to people who don't have English as
a native language, I would correct them, as it's not
perceived as correct by everyone.

I would probably class myself as 'lower middle class',
however my dad would be proud to say that he is
'working class', thus the lack of correction.

Gary

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.27 (15) [E]
Ian wrote:
"Your idea that I was somehow 'insinuating'
anything of the sort you suggest is utterly fanciful
and I can only assume you are taking what I write to
mean something completely different because of my
perceived background."

I felt that yourself and another contributor were implying that
constructions such as "my wife and me" were 'bad English' (which they
clearly are not). Ed in fact went so far as to assert that if I don't say or
write "me went to the theatre" then I shouldn't say "my wife and me". If I
once again got something wrapped around my neck I apologise but I don't
believe I did, in this case.

As for your background - perceived or otherwise - coming into this, don't be
absurd. I don't know anything about you.

Beannachtai ortsa fhéin

Criostóir.

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From: Allison Turner-hansen <athansen at arches.uga.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.27 (07) [E]

Ron wrote:
> The "you" in "Sit you down, dear companions" may not be reflexive or
> otherwise objective but rather subjective. In other words, this could well
> be a remnant of an archaic imperative construction.
> Construction: [verb imp.] [pron. subj.] ...

> So, in "Sit you down, dear companions" the "you" may well be of this sort.
> What do you think?
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Ron,
Yes, your examples, including "Go thou" and "Go you", show clearly
that the pronoun is the subject of the verb.  It makes sense in the case
of "Sit you down", too.
Allison


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