LL-L "Syntax" 2003.07.11 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 11.JUL.2003 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: kcaldwell31 at comcast.net <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Syntax" 2003.07.11 (02) [E]

> From: Allison Turner-Hansen <hallison at gte.net>
> Subject: Semantics
>
> > From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Language varieties
> >
> Ron wrote,
> >
> > (1) Semantics:
> >
> > Where genitives are used, several of the local speakers put into
> > adjectival place phrases that
> > otherwise would be relative; for example,
> >
> > That('s) the ole-guy-who-I-do-his-tax(es)-('s) house.
> > (That's the house of the old guy whose taxes I do.)
> >
> > He('s) the cousin-I-grew-up-with-in-Pushmataha('s) son.
> > (He's the son of the cousin with whom I grew up in Pushmataha.)
> >
> > How widespread is this feature in American and other English and
> Lowlands
> > dialects?

>     Anyway, the usage you mention above is pretty widespread, at least in
> the south.  I have certainly heard it in upper Georgia and in North
> Carolina.
> Regards,
> Allison Turner-Hansen
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Syntax
>
> Thanks, Allison!  It's so good to hear from you!
>
> I don't understand why I called that section "Semantics" when it was
> supposed to be "Syntax."  I guess it was a combination of fatigue,
> vacation
> carelessness and distraction.  But thanks for following the
> instructions/request.
>
> This type of syntactic structure is fascinating, probably rare in
> Indo-European, certainly in Germanic.  It is very much like the normal
> structure in Altaic languages (whose branches are Turkic, Mongolic,
> Tungusic
> and, connected on a pre-Altaic level, Japanese and Korean).  Anything that
> modifies a noun is packed into the adjectival slot, and this includes
> complex subordinate phrases.

Interestingly, Russian (I don't know about other Slavic languages) does
something similar in formal writing.  Participial phrases can be put into
the adjectival slot, producing a sentence such as:

I poorly understand the solved-by-that-professor problem.

In the case of Russian, could it be a result of Altaic influence?

Kevin Caldwell (kcaldwell31 at comcast.net)

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Syntax

Hi again, Kevin!

Indeed, in this regard Slavonic language varieties pretty much go as far as
Indo-European languages will go.  German, too, and to a degree Dutch,
certainly their bookish varieties, will oftentimes put into adjectival slots
what otherwise occupies relative clause slots.  Thus, German:

Ich verstehe die vom Professor(en) gelöste Aufgabe nicht.
("I understand the by the professor solved problem not.")

However, although this is certainly a possibility, there are certain
limitations:

(1)

It has limited use in spoken language and would mean overreaching in casual
conversations, when a relative clause would be used, which is more natural;
e.g.,

Die Aufgabe, die der Professor gelöst hat, verstehe ich nicht.
("The problem, that the professor solved has, understand I not.")

This sort of construction would also be used in Lowlands Saxon, which does
not have a bookish register:

Dey upgaav'/leks, dey dey perfesser uutklamüüsterd het, (dey) versta ik
nich.
("The problem, that the professor solved has, (that/it) understand I not.")

Artificial/unacceptable (_geel_ "yellow" = German-like):
* De vun d'n perfesser uutklamüüsterde upgaav'/leks versta ik nich.
(* "The by the professor solved problem understand I not.")

(2)

This type of construction typically requires a participial form of the verb
(in this case "solved") and passive case (in this case "solved by the
professor").

There are fewer limitations like this in Altaic languages and also in other
language groups, such as Chinese (here Mandarin):

我不明白老師解決的課題.
Wǒ bù míngbái lǎoshī jiějué de kètí.
("I not understand teacher solve {adj. marker} (lesson-)problem.")

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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