LL-L "Language use" 2003.07.18 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18.JUL.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net <Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2003.07.16 (04) [E]

When I was a student 10 years ago I was lucky enough to get a DAAD
scholarship to do a summer course in Greifswald. I remember being told a
story there
that a Platt-speaker from the west had criticised a writer from the east of
being too influenced by Hochdeutsch, not realising (because of the division
of
the country) that the dialects in the east didn't differ as much from
standard German. I can't remember any of the names, unfortunately.

Is what I was told about the dialect true? It would make sense, given the
fact that the Germanic language area is much smaller generally in the east,
but
I know from my experience of Scots that the "broadness" can vary a great
deal because of the degree of dialectalisation. Man kann auch auf deutsch
antworten.

--
All the best,

Gavin

Gavin Falconer

Belfast: 02890 657935
Dublin: 00353 (0)1 831 9089
Work: 00353 (0)1 618 3386
Mobile: 0779 173 0627
Fax:  001 954 301 7991

"Wovon man nicht reden kann, darüber muss man
schweigen."

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

[English below]

Moyen, Gavin!

Hev dank vör Dyn bavenstane belangryke vraag'. Wat sey Dy vertelt hebt, dat
stimt algemeyn, man natüyrlicherwys' givt 't vör elk veralgemeynern
uutnamen.

In 't noordwest het sik dat ("Hoog-")Düytsche man eyrst so richtig in 't 18.
jaarhunnerd breyd maakt. In dey oostlichen rebeyden, 'neem dey meyrsten
minschen tou vör Slaavsche un Baltsche spraken bruken, daar harren sey al in
't 12. jaarhunnerd so richtig anvungen dat Sassische syd by syd mit dat
Düytsche in tou vöyren. Dat is waar, dat sik dey Sassischen dialekten tou
meyrst in 't noordoost un dey Düytschen dialekten sik tou meyrst in 't
süydoost breyd maakt, man in dey meyrsten rebeyden was dat 'n mengeleyren
vun dialekten, un Vlaamsche, Limborgsche un Vreyssche dialekten kemen ook
noch mit daar tou. Dat regeyren harren dey Vranken, un dat Old-Düytsche was
al meyr or min baas. Dat bedüydt, dat in 't oost 'n barg Neddersassischen
(Nedderdüytschen, Platdüytschen) dialekten veel eyrder Düytsche invlöyten
kregen. Ik glöyv', in un üm dey Hanse-staden weyren dey Düytschen invlöyten
in 't middelöller nich so stark, wyl dat dat Sassische daar as
internatschonale Hanseaten-spraak dat regeyren har.

Vundaag' hebt wy noch dat Mennonytsche Neddersassische ("Plautdietsch") as
dey aart oostliche dialektgrup. Daar wardt 'n barg wöyrd' uut 't Düytsche
bruukt, vör dey wy in 't west Sassische wöyrd' bruukt. Man nu givt 't in 't
west ook meyr un meyr dialekten, dey meyr un meyr verdüytscht wardt,
besünners dey in un üm dey groten staden, 'neem dat Düytsche al wat langer
starker is.

Gröytens,
Reinhard/Ron

***

Hi, Gavin!

Thanks for your interesting question above. Generally speaking, it is true
what you were told, but, of course, each and every generalization has its
exceptions.

("High"-)German started to spread to the northwest in earnest in the 18th
century. In the eastern regions, that previously were predominantly
Slavonic- and Baltic-speaking, Saxon and German were to significant degrees
imported beginning with the 12th century. It is true that Saxon dialects
spread to the northeast and German dialects spread to the southeast, but
most areas had dialect mixtures, and Flemish, Limburgish and Frisian
dialects came to be added to this. Political power was in the hands of the
Franks, and Old German more or less predominated under them. As a result,
Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects received German influences earlier. I
believe that German influences were not as strong in and around the medieval
Hanseatic cities, since Saxon was the international lingua franca of the
Hansa Trading League.

These days Mennonite Lowlands Saxon ("Plautdietsch") remains as a
representatives of eastern dialect groups. It uses a lot of German-derived
words for which Saxon-based ones tend to be used in the west. However, there
is now an increasing number of western dialects that are undergoing rapid
Germanization, especially those in and around larger cities, where German
has been predominant for a longer time.

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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