LL-L "Etymology" 2003.07.28 (04) [E/lS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.JUL.2003 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Ze굷s)
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From: "Mathieu van Woerkom" <mathieu.vanwoerkom at student.kun.nl>
Subject: Etymology

Fiete wrote:

> Today I had a look into the new Swadesh-List with Peter Snepvanger's
> Sater-Frisian.
> I found their word for (E) "water" as "wetter".
>
> I didn't find this or anything similar to it in one of the other
Saxonian
> languages.

Dear Fiete,

the Frisian variety which is featured in the swadesh list on the
Lowlands-L homepage (at www.lowlands-l.net), is not Sater Frisian but
Western Frisian
from the Netherlands (Frysk). All Frisian varieties, including Sater
Frisian, are quite different from the Low Saxon varieties (although they
do share several similarities, of course), that's why their word for water
('wetter') is so different from all the Low Saxon words for water
('water', 'woater' etc.).

By the way, the Sater Frisian word for water is also 'woater', as can be
found in the Sater Frisian dictionary* at
http://dictionaries.lowlands-l.net. (which is unfortunately not yet
finished).

regards,
Mathieu

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From: Stella en Henno <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.07.28 (02) [E/LS]

> From: Friedrich W. Neumann <Fieteding at gmx.net>
> Subject: "Etymology"
>
> Dag ook, Ron, Low- un' Leeglanners
>
> (English below)
> vonn Doog heff ick mii de neige Swadesh-List mit Peter Snepvanger siin
> Sater-Freesk ankeeiken.
> Door full mi opp, wat jemme Woord föör (E): "water" "wetter" is.
>
This is not correct, I'm afraid. "Sater-Freesk" (Sater Frisian) for English
"water" is _Woater_. The Modern West Frisian word IS _wetter_. So maybe
someone
has those words confused.
Both _Woater_ and _wetter_ go back to *watar- in Old West Germanic.
Normally, Frisian varieties change a to e in this context, so this gives Old
Frisian
*weter, hence Modern West Frisian _wetter_ (without lengthening in open
syllable).
In North Frisian we find forms from *weter WITH lengthening:
Helgolandic, Sylt Frisian "weeter", Fering "weeder" (with weakening of t to
d).
But Mooring Frisian has _wååder_, and as said Saterfrisian has "Woater",
both with
[O:] sounds (as ô in French). Either these words are Low German loans or
maybe
Old Frisian preserved *water as well, due to the w- influence (eg WF wa <
Old Frisian wa, with preserved [a:]-sound), and lengthened and rounded these
(as Low Saxon also did). Hard to tell.

> Datt heff 'ck sau or sau eihnlich in de annern Sassischen Sprooken
naargens
> funnen.
>
Well, as I explained before, Saterfreesk is NOT "Sassisch" but Frisian.

> Man- in uus Rabeeid, ook in Hamborg, waard föör de grooten Wooterläup, dee
> noo de Schlüüsen tau gooht, ook (LS) "Wettern" seggt.
> Disse Wooterläup sünnt recht aul; de Marschlannen kunnen auhne jem gonne
> beseedelt waarn.
>
> Is dat woll 'n "loanword", or schull datt 'n heel aule
> meeinschapplich-sassische Foorm ween, de blaut in disse speziielle Meeint
> överleeft hett?
>
I think it might very well be a Frisian relic. But also a parallel
"umlauted" form
like "*watir" might very well explain such a form. Again, one would have to
do more
research to tell. I don't know very much about Germanic water names.

> Greutens
>
> Fiete.
>
> ***
>
> (English)
>
> Today I had a look into the new Swadesh-List with Peter Snepvanger's
> Sater-Frisian.
> I found their word for (E) "water" as "wetter".
>
> I didn't find this or anything similar to it in one of the other Saxonian
> languages.
>
> But- in our region and also in the city of Hamburgh those big
> ditches/channels running to the flood-gates are called (LS) "Wettern".
> They are very old. Without them the sorrounding marshlands couldn't have
> been settled.
>
> Is it a loanword, or an ancient common Saxonian word, just having survived
> in this special meaning?
>
> Regards
>
> Fiete.

Henno Brandsma

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