LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.31 (06) [D/E]
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L O W L A N D S - L * 31.May.2003 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at nb.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
>What is the etymology of (_rute_ >) _ruut_?
[Is it a rhutorical question?]
[I don't have immediate access to Dutch etymological material but I can
always speculate!]
Dutch "ruit" = "pane" appears to mean also
"diamond"/"rhombus"/"lozenge". I
would suppose that this referred originally to small panes in leaded
windows or the like. The word appears to be cognate with (and perhaps
derived from) the archaic or obsolete French word "rustre", which also
exists in English, meaning "pierced diamond/lozenge" (in heraldry) and
(speculatively, earlier) "ring/scale [of medieval mail (i.e. flexible
armor)]". (The French word was also said to have once referred to the
point
of a certain type of spear.) Apparently there was an alternative "ruste"
and perhaps there was also "rute" (OED). One can casually speculate that
this is related to Latin "rutrum" = "spade"/"trowel", thus presumably to
Latin "ruere" (cf. English "ruin"), probably derived from IE *reu at -
[@=schwa] in the sense "dig up".
[I defer to anything authoritative.]
-- Doug Wilson
----------
From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
Just like in Danish where we say vindue (Window is a loanword for
Norwegian AFAIK) or we say rude.
Kenneth
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> In most Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects, 'window' is _vinster_
> (_Finster_ ['fI.nst3`]) or _venster_ (_Fenster_ ['fE.nst3`]), going back
> to Latin _finestra_. However, in some dialects people say _ruut_
> (_Ruut_ [ru:t]), or _rute_ (_Rute_ ['rU:te]) where the _-e_ is preserved
> in feminine nouns. In other dialects, _ruut_ specifically denotes
> 'window pane', which in other dialects is called _vinsterschyv'_
> (_Finsterschiev'_ ['fI.nst3`Si:.v]; cf. German _Fensterscheibe_). I
> suppose this is similar to the Dutch case of making the frame (_raam_,
> cf. German _Rahmen_) representative of a window.
>
> What is the etymology of (_rute_ >) _ruut_?
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
----------
From: "Wim" <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
>From wim verdoold wkv at home.nl
Hi,
About ruit, venster, raam, we use all of them...
ik kijk door de ruiten naar buiten, door het raam naar buiten en kijk
uit het venster.
A ruit is a square...like the diamond in a pack of cards, we call that
ruiten too. A raam is the surrounding , the holder of the ruit ,het
raam werk. But now we use the word for the whole thing.
Venster is the roman word fenestra I'm told.
In my dialect the words are pritty much the same...the ui in tuit
becomes a u umlaut or a ooo sound even more to the east.
Hope this is any help..
Bye
wim
----------
From: Ruud Harmsen <rh at rudhar.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
03:37 PM 5/30/2003 -0700, R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>In most Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects, 'window' is _vinster_
>(_Finster_ ['fI.nst3`]) or _venster_ (_Fenster_ ['fE.nst3`]), going
back
>to Latin _finestra_. However, in some dialects people say _ruut_
>(_Ruut_ [ru:t]), or _rute_ (_Rute_ ['rU:te]) where the _-e_ is
preserved
>in feminine nouns. In other dialects, _ruut_ specifically denotes
>'window pane', which in other dialects is called _vinsterschyv'_
>(_Finsterschiev'_ ['fI.nst3`Si:.v]; cf. German _Fensterscheibe_). I
>suppose this is similar to the Dutch case of making the frame (_raam_,
>cf. German _Rahmen_) representative of a window.
>
>What is the etymology of (_rute_ >) _ruut_?
About the Dutch cognate "ruit", the WNT says:
===
RUIT (I), znw. vr. Mnl. rute; mnd. rûte; mhd. rûte, nhd. raute. In
het hd. is het woord vermoedelijk aan het nd. ontleend. Van
onzekeren oorsprong (zie FRANCK-V. WIJK).
===
Merkwaardig is dat een ruit in wiskundige zin geen vier evenwijdige
zijden hoeft te hebben, en dat ze wel alle vier even lang zijn.
Alledaagsere ruiten zijn echter altijd rechthoekig, en niet altijd
even hoog als breed. Ze kunnen zelfs rond zijn (in schepen), en bij
auto's ook driehoekig.
Deze opmerkingen uit het WNT vind ik ook verhelderend:
===
In een raam kunnen één of meer ruiten zitten.
----
Voorheen hadden de ramen vele kleine (in lood gevatte) ruiten, [...]
===
--
Ruud Harmsen http://rudhar.com/index/whatsnew.htm 20 May 2003
----------
From: <jannie.lawn at ntlworld.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
Quote: However, in some dialects people say _ruut_
> (_Ruut_ [ru:t]), or _rute_ (_Rute_ ['rU:te]) where the _-e_ is preserved
> in feminine nouns.
Het woord 'ruit' bestaat ook in 't nederlands. Ik zei vroeger: 'Ik ga
de ruiten wassen'. En 'car windscreen wipers' worden genoemd:
'ruitewissers'.
Thinking about this yesterday, I would say (in Dutch) 'Ik ga de ruiten
wassen'. And 'car windscreen wipers' are called: 'ruitewissers'.
----------
From: "Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc." <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
> What is the etymology of (_rute_ >) _ruut_?
The word is also used in the Ripuarian dialect of Aachen:
Ruut, pl, -e, f. Raute, Scheibe [lat. ruta, ndl. ruit, M. roet, K.
Rutt];
s.a. Rüütche. Et es mär en Ruut us en Fenster (nur ein Junggeselle ist
tot).
Ich setz än lonk än luster dörchjen Ruute (W.H.)
quoted p. 480 in Hermanns Aachener Sprachschatz.(1958, 1970, 1977, 1991)
M: Mestreechs
K: Kölner Mundart
cf. Hein Görgen, 1890-1980, Der Örjelsmann
[... 5]
A jedder Ruut e frueh Jesech,
bes ove ajjen Daacher.
Sujar de Kenger ejjen Weg
all laachens weäde waacher.
[6]
Wat alles ejjen Fenster litt,
dröimt van Jewehr än Stecke
än lett de alleräutste Zitt
janz stell vörövvertrecke.[...]
p. 155-156 in Hans Alt, Os Heämetsproech 1830-1930, Die 150 schönsten Öc
her
Platt Gedichte..., 1988, Aachen
Regards,
Roger
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.26 (06) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
> Gundolf is Old German or Germanic:
>
> Gundobald battle + courageous/valiant
> Gundobert, Guntbert, Guntbrecht, Gumpert, Gumprecht battle +
> bright
> Gundolf, Gundolph battle + wolf *
> Gundomar, Guntmar battle + story/renown
> Guntfried battle + peace/victory
> Gunthard battle + hard/strong/competent
> Gunthelm battle + protection (> helmet)
> Gunther, Günther, Gunter, Günter, Gunnar, Gunner battle +
> lord, ruler
> Guntrad battle + counsel
> Guntram battle + raven
> Guntwin battle + friend (win?)
> Cheerio!
> Reinhard/Ron
Hi Ron,
And not to forget:
Bourgogne in France. Comes from the "Bourgonden"
Perhaps " buren+strijd"(E: neighbours + battle)
groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.27 (08) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> The form _arft_ (or _arwt_) for 'pea' is to be expected:
>
> Afrikaans - Dutch - German - Low-Saxon - W.Fries. - Scots - English
> berg - berg - Berg - barg - berch - (muntain) - (mountain)
> kerk - kerk - Kirche - kark - tsjerke - kirk - church
> werk - werk - Werk - wark - wurk - wark/wirk - work
> sterk - sterk - stark - stark - sterk - stark - stark (strong)
> ertjie - erwt - Erbse - arf(t) - eart - (peas) - (pea)
> Cheers!
> Reinhard/Ron
Hi,
Those are the Flemish variants:
berg - kerke (kerka) - werk - sterk - erwete (with the stress on the
second e [e:])
Groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.30 (05) [E]
> The etymology of "kite" (the bird, _Milvus_) is uncertain, but any
> dictionary that says anything about it points to onomatopoeia, namely
> the cry of the bird. "Kite" is the Modern English development of Old
> English _cy^ta_ (with a long "y"), thus pronounced ['ky:ta] (as though
> spelled _Kühta_ in German and _kuta_ in Dutch), so I guess they have in
> mind a cry like [ky:t], [ky:], [ku:t] or [ku:]. German has _Milan_ and
> _Gabelweihe_ for 'kite', Dutch _wouw_, and Lowlands Saxon _Gavelrick_.
> According to Partridge, "kite" may be related to German (_kûz(e)_ >)
> _Kauz_ 'screech-owl' (_Strix aluco_, Dutch _kerkuil_ ("church owl"),
> _torenuil_ ("tower owl"), Lowlands Saxon _Kattuul_ ("cat owl"),
> _Nachtuul_ ("night owl"), _Dodenvagel_ ("bird of death")). Of course,
> kites and owls are quite different, but they are both birds of prey and
> maybe make similar sounds.
> Cheerio!
> Reinhard/Ron
Hi Ron,
After some research i found the following names in Flemish:
Kijte = een uil
Boschkijte/ buschkijte/boskite/buskite= bosuil
Kutz= uil
Hadekite= wouw, grijpvogel
Duinekijte/dunekite
Also:
Duinekijte= smaadnaam voor iemand die in de duinen woont, een haveloos
mens. Gij lelijke duinekijte= iemand die zijn jongskes geen aas geeft
(zoals de vogel?), die dus niet voor zijn kinderen zorgt.
Boskijte = een ruw iemand die in de bossen woont?
groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
Thanks for the very interesting and enlightening input into the
etymological threads, everyone.
I had never semantically connected German _Raute_ with Lowlands Saxon
(_rute_ >) _ruut_ and Dutch & Afrikaans _ruit_, although in hindsight I
feel I should have, since it is such a clear case. This goes to show
what new insights etymology offers.
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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