LL-L "Celtic connections" 2003.06.03 (06) [E]

[R. F. Hahn]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 03.JUN.2003 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Celtic connections

Beste liëglanners,

In case of the native Brithonic population's reaction to invading
Anglo-Saxons, I have some problems imagining them to flee en masse.

I think that more or less the same might have happened in Gaul earlier
on when the Romans marched in (and maybe also on the Iberian peninsula).

To my knowledge present-day French doesn't have a lot of Celtic
loanwords either (just like English) and there's also a pretty sharp
dividing line between Brittany and the rest of France. Yet, I've never
heard of a massive Celtic exodus in France back then. Like Tom wrote,
many Celtic Belgae left the continent for Britain, those might have been
on the run for Caesar indeed,
but I've never heard of any other continental Celtic mass migration.
Surely, the Roman armies may have had a different impact on the local
population, compared with the Anglo-Saxon "troops" (if one looks at the
oldest Roman(ce) loanwords in Dutch dialects for example, he/she will
notice that quite often they are related to "sophisticated
culture"...hehe, back on track again Ron *s*). Later on, Frankish
(tribes) however, made a very substantial contribution to proto-French
(before being absorbed nonetheless).

This brings me to my question: Is there any language where Celtic did
leave a substantial fingerprint on the absorbing language?

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: "Daniel Ryan Prohaska" <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Celtic connections" 2003.06.03 (02) [E]

Ben J. Bloomgren godsquad at cox.net wrote:

<On the subject of intermingling, how does English from Wales sound? How
<would it be characterized?

Reinhard/Ron wrote:

<Mine is by no means an expert reply, but I have listened to a fair bit
<of Welsh English.  According to one of those easy-to-remember
<characterizations floating around, one that appears to be even less
<accurate than that of Australian English being like Cockney, Welsh
<English "sounds a bit like Indian English."   I suspect that this is
<based on the fact that many English dialects of Wales sound a bit
<staccato to the unprepared ear.  There are fewer diphthongs, i.e., more
<"clear vowels" (such as as [o.] where Southern English has [(e)oU] as
in
<"low", and [e.] where Southern English has [EI] as in "lay" ), and long
<vowels tend to sound somewhat shorter.  The /r/ tends to be trilled or
<tapped, in some cases apical, in others with slightly retroflex taps.
I
<believe the /l/ tends to be "clear," i.e., not velar.   Also, there are
<intonational features that may contribute to some people's perception
of
<Welsh English reminding one of Indian English.  I understand that the
<above-mentioned features are quite consistent with Welsh phonology,
<i.e., are due to Welsh substrates in English.

Bore da Reinhard/Ron and Ben,

Yes, Welsh has left a strong substrate influence on
Anglo-Welsh,epecially in intonation. Usually Words in Welsh and
Anglo-Welsh have two accents, the stressed syllable (the penultimate
usually in Welsh, and the first syllable in Anglo-Welsh) and the final
syllable has a tone that usually has a higher pitch than the stressed
syllable.

Another substrate influence is an occasional (I don't know whether it's
systematic or phonemic) the lengthening of intervocalic consonants, i.e.
<apple> is often /'ap:@l/.

Southern Anglo-Welsh dialects frequently differentiate between words
like (the example is from Trudgill) <the wind blew strongly> where
<blew> is pronounced /bliu/; vs. <My jeans are blue> where <blue> is
/blu:/.

Dan

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