LL-L "Resources" 2003.06.15 (03) [E/LS/S]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.JUN.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: "Thomas Thackery" <tthackery at attbi.com>
Subject:

Moin Moin Leeve Lü,

Are there any Plattsnackers out there that would be willing to make even
the most low-tech of recordings of
some simple readings in Plattdüütsch?  I'm trying to learn how to read
Platts, but sometime the orthography
used isn't something I'm familiar with (e.g. how to pronounce the "e" as
in  "he" or the "y" as in "dy, syne, my"
or the "ch" as in schull [is it like Nederlands or German], or the "s"
as in "de Mann säd").  So, as I compile a list
of the othography and there intended sounds, I would really like to
obtain audio samples (beyond NDR
Bremen 3 Radio and Plattdüütsche Leeder).  Some one could read, for
example, say, a couple poems by
Groth, or maybe some other type of Märchen by the Gebrüder Grimm? Even if
you put them on a cassette
tape and mail it to me, that would be worth so much to me.

Veelen Dank,
Thomas

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Resources

Moin, Thomas!  Schöyn, dat Du wedder na dey list trügkamen büst!

You are not alone in calling for such resources, and I agree that they
are needed.  I would love to be helping learners by participating in
creating such material, but I am afraid that this will need to wait a
bit.  Hopefully others will help in the meantime.

The main problems are that Lowlands Saxon (Low German, "Platt")
orthography is a mess and that there is no standard dialect.  The
examples you listed come from at least two orthographies.

>  "e" as in  "he"

It is pronounced like English <ay> in <hay> or like English <i> as in
<hi!>, depending on the dialect.  In "Neo-Hanseatic" I write it as <ey>.

>  "y" as in "dy, syne, my"

This is from my "Neo-Hanseatic" system, an experimental system based
loosely on principles of Middle Saxon spelling of the Hanseatic era,
intended to be usable for LS speakers of both Germany and the
Netherlands, since this is their common heritage.  (I will post its
principles sometime; in the meantime please see a sample here:
http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/low-saxon/ls-story.html)  Anyway, this <y>
by itself stands for the <ee> sound as in <bee> or the <ea> sounds as in
<tea>.  It is consistent with Old and Middle Dutch <ii>, <ij>, <ÿ> and
<y> (> Afrikaans <y>) which used to have the same sound (and in some
dialects still does) before it became diphthongized.  In Neo-Hanseatic,
<y> can also serve as a glide after another vowel: <ey> for [EI] or
[aI], <ay> for [aI] or [a.I], <öy> for [œI] or [OI], and <üy> for [y:].
What here is <y> is <i>, <ie> or <ieh> in other systems.

(Note: Scandinavian traditions do not come into play; i.e., <y> is *not*
pronounced like German <ü>.)

> the "ch" as in schull [is it like Nederlands or German]

Depending on the dialect.  In the far west, <sch> is as in Dutch or [sG]
(with a voiced fricative).  Everywhere else it is pronounced [S] (as in
"ship" or "shall").

In most dialects, especially in Germany, <ch> is pronounced as in
German: [x] after back vowels, [C] after front vowels.

> or the "s" as in "de Mann säd"

It is [z], as in German <sagt>.

I hope this helped a bit for now.

Andy:

> A'v nou eikit some wee photaes shawin the public uiss o Scots tae ma
> steid
> Scots-Online. Maistlins juist street names an twa-three pubs an shops.
> Some
> o youse micht be interestit. Thay' re spreid oot ower the steid but for
> tae
> mak life mair easy I'v pitten thaim on the ae page at
> http://www.scots-online.org/picturs.htm Thaim that haes slawer
> connections
> micht hae tae wait a meenit.
>
> I have now added some small photos showing public use of Scots to my
> site
> Scots-Online. They're mostly street names and a few pubs and shops. Some
> of
> you may be interested. They are spread around the site but to make life
> easier I've also put them on one page at
> http://www.scots-online.org/picturs.htm Those with slower connections
> may
> have to wait a minute.

Clivver!  Twa-three o thaim micht want English exposeetions fir thaim
that dinna unnerstaund Scots weel, parteeclar "Braick's Wynd."  (A
jalouse, "wynd" is pronounced [w at In(d)] an bears "nairae (wimplin)
vennel.")  A misdout this name coud be mistaen, mispronouncet or
misuised as mowes amang English speakers -- as an a bittie misfortunate
American Indian name o the kin o "Dances with Wolves."  A jalouse ye're
pickin me up.

Nice! A few of them could do with English explanations for those that
don't understand Scots well, especially "Braick's Wynd."  (I take it
_wynd_ is pronounced [w at In(d)] and denotes "narrow (winding) lane or
street.")  I'm afraid this name could be mistaken, mispronounced or
misused as a joke among English speakers -- as a somewhat unfortunate
American Indian name along the lines of "Dances with Wolves."  I take it
you're getting my drift ... (No pun intended :> )

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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