LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.06.29 (03) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29.JUN.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: "Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc." <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.06.27 (02) [D/E]

> From: "Justin Renquist" <justinrenquist at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Vraag over Vlaams en ABN

> I pronounce "r" in Dutch in my throat as I do in French, and it's hard
for
me to explain how with "gr" combinations" to pronounce both g and r
together
since they are both throat sounds (although I seem to do it, but hard to
explain how to others)... "schr" is particulary interesting as in
"verschrikkelijk" !
> It seems some Belgians and Netherlands speakers pronounce a
rolled/trilled r
with the tongue (no uvular r) - what are the social implications of
this? Is
it considered more educated sounding to use rolled r or trilled r? It
certainly is easier to use/teach trilled tongue r for gr combinations!

REPLY:

As to my old schoolbook:
"E. Blanquaert, Praktische uitspraakleer van de Nederlandse taal"
1964, Antwerpen, De Sikkel
both r and R are heard, they were both allowed in Belgian schools, and
did
not have to be corrected at the time.

Defintions in Dutch:
r:: gespannen stemhebbende alveolare liquida
R: stemhebbende half gestpannen velare liquida

The R has several variants though, with two main tendencies:
1 ". .. hoort men de R trillen, wanneer het de huig is die in een gleuf
van
de opgeheven tongrug heen en weer slaat"
2. "... zij wordt veel "schraperiger" wanneer het zacht verhemelte of de
randen van de tongrug zelf trillen, terwijl de huig tegen de opgeheven
tong
blijft vastgeklemd".

I'm not specialized enough in the matter for translating this in correct
English.

Blanquaert finds the R rather occuring in (Belgian) towns. (This may be
due
to penetration of French during last century)

I'm just aware of a strong R-pronounciation in Tongeren as well as by
original Brussels Dutch speakers, and I have the impression that the r
is
more common for other (Belgian) area's.

As a Lonerlands Limburgish dialect speaker, having done my middle school
studies in Tongeren, and obviouslt also learned to speak Tongerlands
Limburgish, an essential element of my language switch from Lonerlands
to
Tongerlands is turning r into R.
The R in Tongerlands is a rolling R and gR as in gRoot is generally
pronounced over there with a rolling R (and not with a chi-like R)

Regards,

Roger

huig: uvula
verhemelte: palate
gleuf: groove???
schraperig: ?? (grates rather than rolls)

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From: "Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc." <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.06.27 (02) [D/E]

> The R in Tongerlands is a rolling R and gR as in gRoot is generally
> pronounced over there with a rolling R (and not with a chi-like R)

I would like to add the g generally is a soft Brabantish g and not
something
tending to the Northern Dutch ch.

I incidentally also hear the French g though in Tongeren, so that the gr
for
some people tends to sound as in French grand.

Regards,

Roger

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