LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.02 (03) [E]

Fri May 2 15:12:28 UTC 2003

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L O W L A N D S - L * 02.MAY.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject: "Etymology"

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Etymology

>Dear Lowlanders,
>
>...I wonder if anyone can help me identify the etymology >of the Lowlands
Saxon
>(Low German) word _schilderaatsen_
>(_Schilderaatsen_ ~ _Schilleraatsen_
>[Sil(d)3'rQ:ts=n] = [??l(d)?'r???n]) 'painting(s)', >often specifically
'wall
>painting', 'fresco'.  This is a plural form.  The singular >form
>_schilderaats_ (_Schilderaats_ ~ _Schilleraats_ [SIl(d)>3'rQ:ts] =
>[??l(d)?'r???]) is rarely used, in some dialects >apparently not at all.
>
>The first part of this apparent compound is not at all >problematic. It is
>related to the verb _schilderen_ ~ _schildern_ ~ >_schillern_ 'to pain't,
>used in far-western dialects (Eastern Friesland, >Oldenburg, Eastern
>Netherlands) as well as in Lowlands Franconian >varieties, including Dutch;
>cf. also Dutch _schilderij_ 'painting'.  It is derived from >the noun
>_schild_ 'shield' (< Old English/Old Saxon _sc(i)eld_ < >Germanic
>*_skelduz_), obviously because warriors' shields tended >to have clans' or
>tribes' symbols (> coats of arms) painted onto them.
>("High") German uses
>the verb _schildern_ in the sense of 'to describe/relate (a >story)'.
>
>What is still a mystery to me is the ending _...aats_.  It >may well be of
>non-native origin, because the sequence _ts_ is non->native if it is within
>the same morpheme (which it may be in this case); e.g., >_grents_ (_Grenz_
~
>_Grenß_ [grE.n(t)s] = [gr??n?] ~ [gr??ns]) >'border' (< German _Grenze_?) <
>Slavic *_granica_ < *_gran'_), _tseeg_ (_Zeeg_ ~ >_Zääg_ [tse:C] ~ [tsE:C]
=
>[?e?ç] ~ [???ç]) 'goat' (< German _Ziege_ < _ziga_?, >cf. native _jit_
>(_Jitt_ [jIt] = [j?t] < Old Saxon _get_; cf. Dutch _geit_, >German _Geiß_,
>Icelandic _geit_), _tsippel_ (_Zippel_ ['tsIp=l] = [??pl] >~ [s?pl])
'onion'
>(< Latin _cepulla_ < _cepula_ = diminutive of _cepa_ >'onion').
>
>Might this _...aats_ have developed from an early >attempt to render French
>_-age_ (> */...aadz@/ > /...aadz/ undergoing final >devoicing)?
>
>Thanks for thinking about it.
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron
>
> From: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.04.21 (03) [D/E]
>
> De verkleinvorm "tsen" is duidelijk Oostvlaams. Wat bezuiden de Leie
> gesproken
> wordt, met uitzondering van Kortrijk, Marke, Aalbeke, Lauwe, Rekkem en
> Harelbeke is Oostvlaams.
> De vorm "tsen" vind je ook terug in de streek van Oudenaarde.
>
> Denis Dujardin
> Kortrijk
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Salut en bedankt, Denis!
>
> _Schilderaatsen_ 'schilderij' is dus waarschijnlijk een (Oost-)Vlaams
> leenwoord in het Nedersaksisch.  Hmm ... Erg interessant!
>
> Groeten,
> Reinhard/Ron

Hello Denis, hello Ron !
In Eastern Friesland we use the word "sgilt" (picture, painting) beside
"bild". "Sgilt" is normally used for the object itself whereas "bild"
mostly
means the idea or imagination. The process of making a picture (which
can be
painting, drawing, taking a photograph) is "sgilderäj" (picture making)
and
the verb is "sgildern" (in German "Schild" means a poster, a traffic
sign or
the tool ancient warriors used to protect themselves against the swords
of
their enemies. "Schildern" means to tell something, to enfold a picture
in
words).
We also know the expression "sgilderótje" or "sgilderótsje" but that is
a
derogative one denoting for example painting of low quality, mass
production, graffity or things like that.
There are also some other words with a similar ending. For example:
"seggerótje" meaning: saying, phrase, short sentence of wisdom or
foolery
and:
"mimerótjes", a word (plural only) which is difficult to translate. It
appears with forms of _to be_ or _to become_ and means a state of mental
and
physical behaviour between being absent minded and being debile often
combined with doing silly things.
"häi kumt in d' mimerótjes" =  he is going to loose - mentally - contact
to
the world around and does silly things;
"häi is in d' mimerótjes" = he is debile.
The word "mimerótjes" is derived from  "mimeræren" which means "to
brood",
"to ponder", "to ruminate".
Regards
Holger

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Above, Holger wrote about _mimerótjes_ < _mimeræren_ and related words.
I wonder if they are based on a loanword, perhaps French _mémoire_
'memory', which in my opinion would be consistent with 'to brood', etc.
(perhaps originally 'to dwell on memories').

> "häi is in d' mimerótjes" = he is debile.

As far as I am aware, *"debile" (= French _débile_) is not an English
word (though it is related to 'to debilitate' and 'debility').  I think
what is meant here is something like 'feeble-minded' or 'dim-witted', in
the example above perhaps 'senile'.  I am just adding this to clarify it
for others.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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