LL-L "Names" 2003.05.03 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 03.May.2003 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: phonology

Hi all

just to say in response to Doug's :

>>"coup de grace" = "coo de grah",
"concierge" = "con-see-air" (since all final consonant
sounds are
imagined
to be elided in French), also last-syllable stress to
imitate 'French'.
I
think this is an (ill-advised?) exaggeration of
(typically American?)
effort to follow the native pronunciation, to show
one's cosmopolitan
nature and/or to show respect for the foreign language
(compare US
"kee-ho-tay" vs. UK "quick-set" or so for "[Don]
Quixote"). Nowadays I
suppose the same motivations impel UK-ans and others
as well as US-ans
to
reach beyond their linguistic limits.<<

I've heard 'coo de grah' pronunciations in the UK,
however 'concierge' is always with 'zh' at the end (as
far as I know - or have heard). Don Quixote is usually
pronounced 'Don Key-oh-tay' in Britain. I know errant
pronunciations can be irksome, but is there really
that big a problem? - look at the German's word for
mobile phone (cell phone) 'Handy' - sounding like
'hendy' to most English speakers. Although irritating
- it's something that's just got to be accepted - I
even find myself calling it a handy (although with 'æ'

instead of 'e')when speaking to English people - I've
been in Germany too long - I need a break!

Gary

ps And yes thinking about it I've been known to say
'Bey-zhing' for the capital of China - as well as
Peking and "Bei'dzh'ing" (having never been there I
don't know what the correct form is, therefore I say
it as I hear it) - and in Germany they still call it
Peking. Does anyone know - is it Azerbai'zh'an or
Azerbai'dzh'an? And what about 'Cambodia' vs
'Kampuchea' is that political correctness or just
pedantry? (ooh - controversial)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

Gary,

> ps And yes thinking about it I've been known to say
> 'Bey-zhing' for the capital of China - as well as
> Peking and "Bei'dzh'ing" (having never been there I
> don't know what the correct form is, therefore I say
> it as I hear it)

"Bei'dzh'ing" comes close.

> - and in Germany they still call it
> Peking. Does anyone know - is it Azerbai'zh'an or
> Azerbai'dzh'an?

Azerbai'dzh'an
(with main stress on the last syllable)

>  And what about 'Cambodia' vs
> 'Kampuchea' is that political correctness or just
> pedantry? (ooh - controversial)

I'd say the latter: pedantry.  I've asked a few Khmer speakers about it,
and they pronounced the name as something like "kambúdzhya", with main
stress on the second syllable, with k, b and dzh voiceless (and the dzh
a bit more like dz), hence the newer spelling with <p> and <ch>.  One of
them (an expatriate Cambodian/Kampuchean) told me she thought the
'Kampuchea' spelling was "silly," because it makes people stress the
<e>, and the old spelling makes people pronounce it more acceptably.
The consensus appears to be that the new spelling was supposed to get
rid of the colonial flavor, a symbolic assertion act probably similar to
the renaming and new spelling of places like (Bombay >) Mumbai, (Ayers
Rock >) Uluru, (Christianshåb >) Nuuq, (Peking >) Beijing, (Mount Everest
>) Chamolungma (sp?), and ... oops! ... (Friesland >) Fryslân.

I have no problem with German-speaking areas retaining "Peking."  It's
an old and established name, established like "Kopenhagen" (for "Kø
benhavn"), "Rom" (for "Roma"), "Mailand" (for "Milano"), "Athen" (for
"Athine"), "Jerusalem" (for "Yerushalayim" or "al-Qudz") or "Damaskus"
(for "Damashek").

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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