LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.14 (06) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 14.MAY.2003 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Etymology

Beste Ron,

I beg to differ, regarding your proposed etymology of _Mündig_:

>_Mündig_ 'of age',
>'legally adult', is derived from _mund_ 'mouth'.  Someone who is _mü
>ndig_ speaks for himself or herself and takes responsibility for his or
>her own matters, does not need a _vörmund_ (German _Vormund_,
>"for(e)-mouth", same as LS _vulmacht_ "full-might/power"*) 'guardian'
>who does it for him or her.

Now follows what I wrote on 02/05/13 21:45 264  LL-L "Lexicon"
2002.05.13 (06) [E/LS] :

balmondig (D), ("belmundech" or something like that in
"Mittelniederdeutsch") : this is a favourite word of mine *s*...as it is
still used in my own dialect for handicapped people. The word is pretty
old and is now no longer used in Standard Dutch. "mondig" however still
is, but most dutch people tend to think (falsely) it is a derivation of
"mond" (D), "mouth" (E). Truth is that "mondig" used to mean "having the
power to support, to sustain oneself" "having power, capacities and
capabilities"
during the Middle Ages. And a disabled person obviously lacks certain
abilities by definition (maybe substituting them with sharper or better
trained other skills...I can't judge this as I'm not medically trained).
Anyway, another word that is related to "mondig" (which I seem to
remember is etymologically related to Latin "manus" = "hand" (E), (D),
(G)) is "montboor" (D) > "momber" (D) > "moemmer" (B), meaning "voogd"
(D)..."stepfather" (E)

Thus, (medieval) Dutch "montboor" and German "Vormund" contain the same
radix, meaning "might" and certainly not "mouth". The spellings of these
two different words just happen to coincide ("mund" (G), "mond"(D)), and
the real meaning of the obsolete one has been shaded by the meaning of
the other word. Moreover, "being able to speak for oneself" has only
very recently been upgraded to a respectable trait. Remember the proverb
"Speech is silver, silence is golden". Getting food and shelter has been
the main problem of most people for thousands of years and "Hear all,
see all, say nowt" was (unfortunately) sound advice back then. Living in
China again these days, this dichotomy has become all too clear once
again.

Off the record, _balmondig_ sounds like "mallünnig" in Brabantish.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.05.14 (01) [E]

For those interested

Look for Mynde, myndug(-ig)
http://129.177.206.188/kalkar/index.asp?vis=sok&alfa=m&stikkord=mynde

Look for Minde 4):
http://129.177.206.188/kalkar/index.asp?felt=side&band=3&sok=92&vis=sok

Look for mund:
http://129.177.206.188/kalkar/index.asp?felt=side&band=3&sok=142&vis=sok

Maybe it is also related to munt (today: mønt, meaning coin)?

Kenneth

> From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
> Maybe we have to be a little careful here, conc. mund
> = mouth.
> 'Mund' also is a legal technical term in
> Old-Scandinavian. And it is not likely that mund is
> mouth.
> [Compare the latin term: in manu parentis, and so on.
> In Old-Icelandic the word  is 'mundr'. And mouth would
> be: munnr.]
>
>  Vr. gr. Theo Homan

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