LL-L "Translation" 2003.11.06 (10) [E]

Fri Nov 7 01:49:59 UTC 2003

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Translation"

> From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
> Subject: Translation
>
> In my interpretation (and mind that this is personal) the "personified"
> bracken (reddened from the cold, possibly with a glitter of frost) *takes
> possession of* winter, 1-4 being symbols, things that the poet's mind
> connects with winter scenes: 1) the sounds, 2) (& 4) the
> sensations, and 3)
> the sights.

Thanks, Ron. I think for me the secret to being happy with this translation
will involve hitting on a way of saying "take hold of" that makes more sense
to me in this context. Perhaps just "tak" would do, I'm thinking, or
something in Scots that comes closer to "embrace" than "grip".

> LIFE AN DAITH
>
> Div ye ken whit is like life an daith?
> Ye cuid think on thaim as watter an ice.
> Whan watter jeels it turns intae ice.
> Whan ice thows it turns ance mair intae watter.
> Whit dees maun come tae life again.
> Whit leeves maun dwyne tae daith again.
> Watter an ice dae anither nae hairm.
> Thay's e'enlie lillie -- life an daith.

The main problem I had with a literal translation was finding a Scots
equivalent of "nice" that wasn't too contrived. Now I'm thinking "fine" or
"juist fine" might do it.

I notice you changed my "meet wi daith" to "dwyne tae daith" - is this a
deliberate attempt at avoiding personification because it's a Chinese poem?

I think shih has quite a brilliant structure for poetry - I've written a few
myself, though they tend to break the line-length rule really badly, lines
occasionally growing very long (I'm the Ogden Nash of shih!). Since I don't
know Chinese I have a hard time with the translations I find. For example, I
think this is one of the finest very short poems I've ever read:

Too young to have learned what sorrow means
Dressed for spring she ascends to her high chamber
The new green of the street-willows is wounding her heart
Just for a title she sent him to war.

However, I'm puzzled, as I often am by these translations, as to why it's
classed as shih. There's supposed to be a semantic correspndence between
each couplet, but I can't see it. Is it meant not to be obvious or did the
translator just not bother to preserve it?

Anyway, it's late here but tomorrow I'll have another bash at literal
renderings of both the Irish and Chinese poems.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Translation

Thanks, Sandy.  I appreciate your interest and enthusiasm.  I love
translation work, especially translation of poetry, despite its considerable
challenges, or *because* of them, because it forces you to get very deeply
into the work and to connect the dots the best way you know how.   One of
the perks is that this sort of pursuit teaches you a lot about your language
or the language into which you translate.  Innate limitations force you to
compensate by means of different linguistic and metaphoric devices.

Of course, you will never see the picture exactly the same way the poet saw
it, and that may not be necessary either, as long as people know it's a
translation.  In German you can use the term _Nachdichtung_ to denote a poem
based on a poem in another language, allowing for personal interpretation.
This is in contrast with _Übersetzung_ 'translation' from which you expect
more faithful interpretation.

> Perhaps just "tak" would do, I'm thinking, or something in Scots that
comes closer to
> "embrace" than "grip".

_Tak_ or a similar "vague," "basic" word would be good.  Sometimes it is
best not to be too specific, better to let the reader work on it.

> I notice you changed my "meet wi daith" to "dwyne tae daith" - is this a
deliberate
> attempt at avoiding personification because it's a Chinese poem?

I think it was such an attempt, though I am conscious of it only now that
you said so.  (I think I sometimes practice "automatic writing," turning off
intellectual reasoning.)

Below is a vocabulary list.  Hopefully it will help you.  Bear in mind that
Classical Chinese is quite a different creature from Modern Chinese, that
especially in _shi(h)_-style poetry you tend to deal with something like a
bare-bones, abstract painting with more white space than ink.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

***

(1)
   欲 want, desire
   識 know, knowledge
   生 life, live
   死 death, die
   譬 metaphor, likeness

(2)
   且 moreover, also (post-subject), about to, will soon (pre-verb)
   將 proceed, will, going to, future
   冰 ice
   比 versus, compare, liken, comparison, than
   水 water

(3)
   水 water
   結 knot, tie, join, connect
   即 promptly, quickly, immediately
   成 become
   冰 ice

(4)
   冰 ice
   消 vanish, die out, melt away
   返 return, revert to, restore
   成 become
   水 water

   (5)
   已 already, finished, stop
   死 death
   必 surely, most certainly, must
   應 should, ought to, must
   生 life

(6)
   出 go out, send out, stand, produce, emit
   生 life
   還 return, again, still
   復 return, repeat
   死 death

(7)
   冰 ice
   水 water
   不 no, not; un-; negative prefix
   相 mutual
   傷 damage, harm

8)
   生 life
   死 death
   還 return, again, still
   雙 both, together
   美 beautiful, pretty, pleasing, delightful

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