LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.13 (04) [E/S]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 13.NOV.2003 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: sam claire <samclaire at mybluelight.com>
Subject: LL-L flumen

John: In my old neighborhood there was a patch of woods wherein bushes grew
that bore a small blue/purple plum.  The were extremely tart but us kids
loved them (the birds sure didn't want them).  Sounds like the same as the
others talked about.  Sam

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From: "James C. Stalker" <stalker at msu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (02) [E/S]

It would be an easy  phonological shift from aitchoo to ashes.  The move
would
be supported by the phrase "ashes to ashes, dust to dust, ' the underlying
death
theme (if the plague story is accurate).  As a child, I never understood why
we
were dying, but I did understand that when we got to ashes to ashes and then
fell down that we were done for.

Jim Stalker

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From: RVZSTERN at aol.com <RVZSTERN at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Holidays" 2003.11.11 (07) [D/E/LS]

Very nice,I enjoyed reading that! Anyone out there in the Seattle area
interested in (singing) Dutch folksongs? I know I've asked before,still
hoping...........Roeliena Van Zanten.

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From: PPMAC56 at aol.com <PPMAC56 at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (14) [E]

Hello all,

I've been following this "Ring-a-ring o' roses" debate with great interest.
I don't know if anyone has a chronological list of all the variations of the
rhyme, especially the difference in words like rosie/roses and
ashes/atishoo, but I was wondering if it is possible that the words of the
rhyme were changed as people learned the "meaning" of the rhyme; i.e. if it
was assumed that the rhyme referred to a plague, might someone have changed,
for example, ashie, which may originally have been a nonsense word, or a
word with a different connotation, to a-tishoo to fit in with their
understanding of the rhyme's true meaning?

Just a thought. What do you think?

Peter McLean.

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From: James Fortune <jamesrfortune at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (14) [E]

Jannie, Ye wrote

"I think I remember that someone in a t.v. programme once said that it could
have been anthrax
instead.  Anyone know more about this?"

Aye weill, Ah'd heard that it wuis scaerlet fever, no tha plague or anthrax.
Ah thowt that the "ring o rosie" refered tae tha kenspeckle merking o tha
skin. Mind, Ah cuid be talking total keech! ;-) Wudnae be tha first time!

James Fortune.

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Traditions

James (abuin):

> Aye weill, Ah'd heard that it wuis scaerlet fever, no tha plague or
anthrax.
> Ah thowt that the "ring o rosie" refered tae tha kenspeckle merking o tha
> skin. Mind, Ah cuid be talking total keech! ;-) Wudnae be tha first time!

Aye, the "rosie ring" merkins o "scairlet fever"!  Weel, *that*'s the
version A've haurd, bit A didna hae the saul tae moot it in aw the colloguin
an communin about plague an pestilence, fearin it's anither merkin o an
early superannuate mental state.

Guidwill,
Reinhard/Ron

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