LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.11.14 (04) [E]

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Haj uw,

Reynaldo asked about 'oi' in London thus:

"I once came across two tourists (around their late 20's) from Kent
(South-East of England) and after a while, they asked me why is that
that Brazilians use to say 'oi' so often. Let me enlighten you. 'Oi' stands
for 'hi' in Portuguese. However, they thought that 'hello/hi' in Portuguese
should be 'hola', which means 'hello/hi' in Spanish.
After a short explanation that the Portuguese 'oi' stands for 'hello/hi' ,
they told me they'd feel awkward everytime they'd have to greet someone
in Brazil. They said that 'oi/oy' in England (I suppose it must be used
more often in this form of English (?)) does sound very rude, should you
greet someone that way or just try to have someone's attention by saying
'oi/oy'.
Anyway, once in London, I could frequently notice people greeting each
other by introducing the (English) 'oi/oy' - More frequently amongst young
people, I think.
Is it rude to use this 'oi/oy' or not? If not, where is it used apart from
London? Is it used as slang and/or it just does exist in the popular
English of London? Is anyone able to give me some light on it?
: )"

(I've included all of the original cos I'm sure I'm one of the offenders who
doesn't follow all the rules correctly by quoting the original message -
sorry Ron)

To me 'oi' is something that can be used only among friends, and mainly to
attract attention - it's often followed by a 'jovial' insult which should
not be taken too personally - in the form 'oj, juw awd...' ('oi, you
old...'). It's quite frequently used but not as a greeting - the addressee,
for example, would not answer 'oi'.

Another possibility is that what you heard was broad Cockney for 'hi' - here
the 'h' would be dropped and the /ai/ would be slightly rounded to an 'oi'
like sound (although still kept distinct from 'oy' as in 'boy') - which
would indeed sound to non-natives as oi.

Hope that's answered your question.

Gary :)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2003.11.13 (06) [E]

Hey, Gary!

> (I've included all of the original cos I'm sure I'm one of the offenders
who doesn't
> follow all the rules correctly by quoting the original message - sorry
Ron)

You did just fine.  You quoted, said whom you quoted and followed the
subject line.  No complaints here.  Here you have a silver star for
exemplary conduct.

Isn't England English "Oy!" ~ "Oi!" pretty much the equivalent of
(attention-seeking) "Hey!" and "Eh!" in other dialects (and _He(, (du) da)!_
in German, _He, Macker!_ among males in Hamburg Missingsch)?  Obviously it
sounds abrupt and rude to unitiated English ears used so often in Brazil,
where it is a casual salute like "Hi!".  The Portuguese equivalent of "Oy!"
is _Ei!_, I believe, _¡Oye!_ or _Eh!_ in Spanish, Italian _Ehi!_, French
_Hé!_, Russian "Эй!" (_Ej!_)  ...

To confuse people even more, you use "Hoi!" as a casual salute in the
Netherlands ...  I assume it is derived from nautical "Ahoi!" (stressed on
the final syllable) -- or is it the other way around? -- originally also
attention-seeking (probably initially over long distances), interestingly
still a salute in the landlocked Czech Republic and Slovakia.

In the United States, "Hey!" became a salute in place of "Hi!" not too long
ago, used mostly among younger people, especially males.  (I think it sounds
sort of masculine to many, as probably also "Hey!" and "Oy!" in England.)
I am not sure it will stay around, though.  Many older people find it rude
too, again because it sounds like the attention-seeking "Hey(, you)!" to
them.  I sometimes use it, mostly with younger males, sometimes in other
contexts "for effect," "shock value" ("in a cheeky mood," as our British
friends would say, when I use expressions people would not expect to hear
from me).  There is one person who will automatically counter by saying "Hay
is for horses."

Tata!
Reinhard/Ron

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