LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.11.17 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 17.NOV.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Jenny Kool <j.kool at reginacoeli.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.11.14 (08) [E]

>   To confuse people even more, you use "Hoi!" as a casual
> salute in the
>   Netherlands ... I assume it is derived from nautical
> "Ahoi!" (stressed on
>   the final syllable) -- or is it the other way around? --
> originally also
>   attention-seeking (probably initially over long distances),
> interestingly
>   still a salute in the landlocked Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Dear all,
In some parts of the Netherlands, 'hoi' is also used when parting, whereas
originally it was an informal expression when greeting. There is even a news
reader in television (she's reading het Jeugdjournaal - the childrens'news)
who says 'hoi' every day at the end of her broadcasting. To me it sounds
very strange...
In some parts of Gelderland, Noord-Brabant en Limburg, people say 'hajje'
when leaving, whereas I prefer 'houdoe', since that is what we all say in
the 's-Hertogenbosch area (Noord-Brabant) where I grew up and still live.

Jenny Huijben-Kool

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From: Reynaldo Castro <damy_castro at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.11.14 (04) [E]

Hi, everyone

Thanks for the nice feedback. I'm sure I'll know exactly how to use this
'oi'. : )

Gary, thanks a lot! By the way, aren't you who wrote the 'Estuary English'
blurb? That one is 'me' favourite!: )

*Gary wrote:

''Another possibility is that what you heard was broad Cockney for 'hi' -
here
the 'h' would be dropped and the /ai/ would be slightly rounded to an 'oi'
like sound (although still kept distinct from 'oy' as in 'boy') - which
would indeed sound to non-natives as oi.''

Hmm..I'm not so sure. Although, I've also often noticed this dropped 'h' (I
*av* (have) to go (?) - Does it make sense?

As for the oi/oy.. I was just unsure of the correct spelling, but I meant
'oi', all the time: )

Hope that's answered your question. (Yes, indeed! Thanks)

Gary

***

RFH (Ron) wrote:

Isn't England English "Oy!" ~ "Oi!" pretty much the equivalent of
(attention-seeking) "Hey!" and "Eh!" in other dialects (and _He(, (du) da)!_
in German, _He, Macker!_ among males in Hamburg Missingsch)? Obviously it
sounds abrupt and rude to unitiated English ears used so often in Brazil,
where it is a casual salute like "Hi!". The Portuguese equivalent of "Oy!"
is _Ei!_, I believe, _¡Oye!_ or _Eh!_ in Spanish, Italian _Ehi!_, French
_Hé!_, Russian "Эй!" (_Ej!_) ...

To confuse people even more, you use "Hoi!" as a casual salute in the
Netherlands ...

Ron, I feel confortable using 'hoi', in Dutch, as it (I believe so) stands
for my Portuguese 'oi' (Hi). Right?

 I assume it is derived from nautical "Ahoi!" (stressed on
the final syllable) -- or is it the other way around? -- originally also
attention-seeking (probably initially over long distances), interestingly
still a salute in the landlocked Czech Republic and Slovakia.

In the United States, "Hey!" became a salute in place of "Hi!" not too long
ago, used mostly among younger people, especially males. (I think it sounds
sort of masculine to many, as probably also "Hey!" and "Oy!" in England.)
I am not sure it will stay around, though. Many older people find it rude
too, again because it sounds like the attention-seeking "Hey(, you)!" to
them. I sometimes use it, mostly with younger males, sometimes in other
contexts "for effect," "shock value" ("in a cheeky mood," as our British
friends would say, when I use expressions people would not expect to hear
from me). There is one person who will automatically counter by saying

Ron, that's exactly what I wanted to know. If 'oi', in England, could be
used just as 'hey' (in America) is used (even on TV... 'hey', *how you doin*
haha) ..

"Hay is for horses." (*LOL*) -

I've recently seen on tv, a movie about Carlota Joaquina (Royal Family -
Colonial Brazil), in which the last scene shows an Englishman talking to a
child and driving a couple of sheeps away by saying:
'Oi..move..move..oi..oi..move...'

So, in the end, Oi/hey are very much the same... though they seem very
common, I'll think twice before using it.. : )

cheers, mates!

Rey

[Reynaldo Damy Castro]

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