LL-L "Names" 2003.10.04 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 05.OCT.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.10.04 (05) [E]

> From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
> Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.10.04 (03) [E]
>
> But -um is also used in a lot of saxon names, all
> over Denmark, [...]

Hello,

Place-names ending on -um:
in most cases this endings {-um, -en, -un, etc.} go
back on the oldgermanic dativ plural, which was used
to indicate place-names.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: niels winther <nwi at dfds.dk>
Subject: LL-L: "Names"

Ron, you wrote (about "kog" in Danish):
  ... you mentioned a recent "renaissance in std. Danish" of the ´
  word. So I assume that until recently the word was what might
  be called   "dormant," i.e., used only in local dialects and/or
  specialist terminology, and a political debate has reinstated
  it as a more widely used term. Would that be correct?
----

That is correct. Apart from the directly involved, you did expect
e.g. that a historian, botanist, lawyer or engineer would know
the word, but not the general public.

cheers
Niels

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From: Jan Strunk <strunkjan at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.10.04 (05) [E]

Hello,

Ron wrote:
> Thanks, Kenneth.  Well, yes, now that I come to think of it, there may be
> Saxon names with _-um_ (Bochum?).  I am not sure.

Well, Bochum is very likely a Saxon name. The earliest attested form
is Cofbuokhem. It seem to mean "beechhome".
In the local Low Saxon (there is not much left, though), Bochum is today
called Baukum or Baukem. Actually, I think there are a lot of names
in Westphalia that end in -um, such as Walsum, Hilsum.
There are more, but I don't remember at the moment.
Actually, I guess that at least some of them contain the element
"hem" (German -heim). I have no idea why this should come out as
"-um"!?

Guedgaon!

Jan Strunk
strunk at linguistics.ruhr-uni-bochum.de

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From: niels winther <nwi at dfds.dk>
Subject: LL-L: "Names"

Ron skrev:

  Is Darum (_-um_) not a Frisian name, and aren't there numerous
  Frisian place names along the (once North-Frisian-speaking) the
  southwestern coast of Jutland, as there are south of today's
  Danish-German border?  Has anyone done a study of this?
  Are there any Frisian traces in the local Jutish/Danish dialects?

---
Placenames ending in -um are thought to be older than the North
Frisian expansion, and not especially Frisian by the way.
As far as I remember it has been establishe somehow that the
Frisians settled along the Wadden Sea at least up to Ribe.
I'm afraid I know too little about this to be of much help.
The problem would be to establish whether Frisian traces stems
from settlements or have made their way into the Jutish dialects
via cultural exchange along the coast.
The Wadden Sea environment is inviting intense cultural exchange
since the common mighty neighbour Blanke Hans makes cooperation
across national and linguistic boundaries a vital necessity.
The Frisians undoubtedly have intermingled with the neighbouring
populations since the surname Friis is quite common.

cheers
Niels

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Jan (above):

> Actually, I guess that at least some of them contain the element
> "hem" (German -heim). I have no idea why this should come out as
> "-um"!?

How about unstressed _-hem_ > _-em_ > _-om_ ~ _-um_ (i.e., labial vowel
assimilation to _-m_)?

Niels (above):

> The Wadden Sea environment is inviting intense cultural exchange
> since the common mighty neighbour Blanke Hans makes cooperation
> across national and linguistic boundaries a vital necessity.


A lovely, almost poetic statement worth remembering!  Thanks.

We say _Blanke Hans_ ~ _Blank Hans_ ~ _Blankhans_ ("White/Shiny John" =
'(potentially) rough, brutal, stormy North Sea') in Lowlands Saxon (>
Northern German _Blanker Hans_).  Do you use this nickname in Denmark also?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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