LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.10.10 [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 10.October.2003 * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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Onderwerp: "Idiomatica"
Van: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 2:32 am

At 11:01 PM 10/09/03 +0200, Uilleam wrote:

>The openness of Americans is truly very interesting. Looking back to
> the fifties (before my time), it seems like then the Americans were
> more European in outlook, that is, more reserved. Perhaps with the
>'revolutions' of the sixties, people became more expressive of their
> emotions?
>
>As for Canada, I, too, am very interested in how people express
>themselves.

Not a big difference, really.  I think to a European, the difference
would  be completely imperceptible.  Canadians as a rule are more
reserved and  harder to get to know.  But once you get to know them,
there is perhaps a  greater sense of loyalty.  However, this is based on
my experience as an  American who was born and raised in the Chicago
area, went to university in  Vermont (that's "college" to you Americans)
for four years, lived in  Philadelphia and Boston at various times, but
have lived in Ontario since  1970.  You'd probably find a greater
difference between rural and urban in  both countries than you would
between the countries.  There are also  trans-boundary regional
differences and similarities.  For example, New  York State, Ontario,
Vermont and Michigan share many cultural
similarities.  They tend more or less, to give an example, to be opposed
to  the death penalty, making these northern States more like Canada,
and the  Province of Alberta in western Canada more like Texas in this
regard.

To me, perhaps the greatest difference I found when I came to Canada was
 the lack of ghettoization.  Where I lived in Philadelphia, I was the
only  white person living within four blocks, and the city was divided
into very  distinct districts of Italians, blacks, Ukrainians, etc.,
even though there  had been virtually no new immigration to the city
since the 1950's.  In  Hamilton, where I live, the city is full of
immigrants, some whose families  came well before WWII, together with
others who are "just off the boat",  and yet they live generally
throughout the city, and every street has  examples of practically every
nation on earth.  My own street, which is  only two short blocks long
has a Caribbean family, a Portuguese family, a  Vietnamese family and a
family from Quebec and probably others if I cared  to actually research
it.  The other thing I found remarkable was that  people felt very, very
comfortable speaking their native language in front  of you, something
that would have been quite amazing in the US, as far as I  experienced
it.

Ed Alexander, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

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Onderwerp: "Idiomatica"
Van: globalmoose at t-online.de (Global Moose Translations)
Datum: Do, 9 oktober, 2003 5:48 pm

Well, as a pragmatic and to some extent stubborn
Northern german, I assume that my parents, children, siblings etc. KNOW
I love them for many reasons, so why would I nned to repeat that all the
time if I have made it very clear to them through my acts on many
occasions? Also, when I tell someone "I love you", I really mean it, and
not just for today and the week after. So if I say it every day -
wouldn't that mean that my word isn't good enough, that there are doubts
the next day already whether I do or not? Of course it's nice to hear
and/or say it once in a while when appropriate, but using it as a
tepephone greeting makes it worthless through inflation, in my opinion.

I fell the same about the American Pledge of Allegiance, by the way. A
pledge is a pledge; when I say it, I mean it and stand by my word from
then on. So if schoolchildren are made to say it every day, over and
over again, doesn't that mean that yesterday's "pledge" is worthless a
day later?! That is NOT what I consider "teaching them values".

Gabriele Kahn

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Onderwerp: "Idiomatica"
Van: Frederique Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 11:06 am

>It would be interesting to see if more "exuberant," "flamboyant" expressions
>are acceptable in the Roman-Catholic-dominated Lowlands, namely in the
> Southern Netherlands and Belgium where Low Franconian and Francophone
> spheres overlap.

Hi

I only can speak for my family but here in french west Flanders, we are
also very stingy with sentimental expression. I think it's interesting
to note that the verb "to love" doesn't really exist in dutch and in
west- flemish. For saying "I love you", we use in west flemish: "'k zien
je geirn" which can be litterally translated in high german " ich sehe
dich gern" (I don't see how to correctly and litterally translate it in
english. To me it sounds as "I see you with delight").

Note that I know it's the way to say "I love you" in west flemish but I
never heard my parents say it. I also never heard my parents say it in
french to me or between them. As a consequence, I never say "I love you"
in west flemish or in french to anyone. I just can't say it!
Thus, despite of the fact that we are in Roman-catholic-dominated
lowlands and surely in the most french-influenced area, I think that
flemish- speaking families are really not exuberant when expressing
their emotions. But I know that northern french (picard) families are
more demonstrative ones. It must be a typical lowlandic characteristic.

Cheers
Frederic Baert

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Onderwerp: Idiomatica
Van: Matthew Worsham <matthew_worsham at yahoo.com>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 4:41 pm

Hi y'all! ( = Ger. 'ihr', App. 'youns', and a very handy pronoun all
'round!)

It's been my experience growing up in the American South (technically
the Southeast) that folks here tend to be quite reserved when it comes
to matters of more 'private' emotion such as displaying affection in
public.  Many of us aren't all that emotionally demonstrative even when
NOT in public!  This doesn't carry over to more general displays of
emotion such as, say, at football games--or so I'm told!   The area I'm
most familiar with was settled largely by Protestant farmers of English
heritage.  Could there be a connection?   It seems we share a
stereotype!  ;-)

It could be an interesting topic for someone's Anthropology thesis:
Hugs and Hug-Nots: A Quantitative Analysis of Public Displays of
Affection in Western Society...!

Matt Worsham

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