LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.10.16 (06) [D]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 16.October.2003 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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Onderwerp: "Language contacts"
Van: Patrick or Cynthia Karl <pkarl at grasshoppernet.com>

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Language contacts
>
>I added:
>
>Note also the supposedly Germanic-derived Finnish and Estonian word for
>'fish': _kala_.  This is supposed to have been derived from the Germanic
>word for 'whale', thus originally probably something like "large fish" or
>"ocean creature" for the Finnic ancestors who had arrived from the Volga
>region at the shores/beaches (_strand_ >) _ranta_ of the Baltic _meri_ (cf.
>Old German _meri_, Old Saxon _meri_, Old Norse _marr_ < Germanic *_mari_):

Since the Hungarian word for 'fish' is 'hal', which seems to be cognate
to the Finnish word, 'kala', it seems more likely to me that the Finnish
word is not borrowed from Germanic, but is rather inherited from the
Finno-Ugric parent language.  Or, I guess, that Hungarian could also
have borrowed it from Germanic.

Regards,
Patrick Karl

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Onderwerp: "Language contacts"
Van: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>

>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language contacts
> ***
> I added:
>
> Note also the supposedly Germanic-derived Finnish and Estonian word for
> 'fish': _kala_.  This is supposed to have been derived from the
> Germanic
> word for 'whale', thus originally probably something like "large fish"
> or
> "ocean creature" for the Finnic ancestors who had arrived from the
> Volga
> region at the shores/beaches (_strand_ >) _ranta_ of the Baltic _meri_
> (cf.
> Old German _meri_, Old Saxon _meri_, Old Norse _marr_ < Germanic
> *_mari_):

Flemish: maore

>
> Old English: hwæl
> Old Norse: hvalr (/hval+r/)
> *Germanic: *xwalis (*/xwal+is/)

Flemish/Dutch: wal(vis)

>
> Cf. (Baltic) Old Prussian: kalis 'sheath fish'
>
> WIth best regards, Tapani

Hi Tapani and Ron,

Perhaps it has nothing to do wit it but i write it anyway:
In West-Flanders the parents scared their children for the dangers of
water by saying that in the  water was "Kalle met d'n haok", a sort of
female watermonster that  would pull us into the water with her hook if
we went to close to the border.

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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Onderwerp: "Language contacts"
Van: "Heinrich Becker" <Heinrich.Becker at gmx.net>

Hi to all, who are interested in Germanic derived Finnish words,

I'm not so sure, that the Finnish word "kala" for fish is from Germanic
origin. This word could be one of the very few which is still similar to
Hungarian "hal", which also means fish. This could be a loan too. But "
fish" is like
"hand" one of the basic word in many language systems.

By the way, among lots of Germanic derived words in Finnish, there is one
even Finnish people don't think it's a loan:  kaunis  = means "nice", "schön"
in German. It is derived from early High German "skauniz".

Terveisiä ( Greetings)

Heinrich Becker

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