LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.10.16 (10) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24.August.2003 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: "Mari Sarv" <mari at haldjas.folklore.ee>
Subject: LL-L "Language contacts"/"Etymology": kala, kana, vaal, hani, nukk

I searched up my study notes and found following:
_kala_ 'fish' is not only Finno-Ugric, but even Uralic root
as Tapani said, _kana_ 'hen' is considered to be Germanic
loan in Baltic-Finnic from the period ca 1300-500 BC
as well as _vaal_ 'whale'.

We do have the word _hani_ 'goose' < *hanhi which derives from Baltic
*šanši (older than Germanic influence). Is the Baltic form somehow related
to Germanic?

> Onderwerp: "Etymology"
> Van: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
> Datum: Do, 9 oktober, 2003 11:45 pm
>
> Hi Luc,
>
> But it still remains obvious, that indeed all toponyms in Flanders,
> which have a "knok"-name, are slightly elevated points in the landscape
> which surrounds them.
> What about the word 'knoken' which means ' knuckels'. The "knoken" of
> the hand seem to me the slightly elevated points where fingers "touch"
> the back of the hands.

In Estonian there is a word _(mäe)nukk_ which means exactly the same in
landscape, and it is common component of somatic composita, like sõrmenukk
'knuckel', õlanukk 'shoulder(top)', küünarnukk 'elbow(top) etc.

Regards,
Mari Sarv

> Onderwerp: "Language contacts"
> Van: Patrick or Cynthia Karl <pkarl at grasshoppernet.com>
>
> >From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Language contacts
> >
> >I added:
> >
> >Note also the supposedly Germanic-derived Finnish and Estonian word for
> >'fish': _kala_.  This is supposed to have been derived from the
Germanic
> >word for 'whale', thus originally probably something like "large fish"
or
> >"ocean creature" for the Finnic ancestors who had arrived from the
Volga
> >region at the shores/beaches (_strand_ >) _ranta_ of the Baltic
> _meri_ (cf.
> >Old German _meri_, Old Saxon _meri_, Old Norse _marr_ < Germanic
> *_mari_):
>
> Since the Hungarian word for 'fish' is 'hal', which seems to be cognate
> to the Finnish word, 'kala', it seems more likely to me that the Finnish
> word is not borrowed from Germanic, but is rather inherited from the
> Finno-Ugric parent language.  Or, I guess, that Hungarian could also
> have borrowed it from Germanic.
>
> Regards,
> Patrick Karl
>
> -----------------------
>
> Onderwerp: "Language contacts"
> Van: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
>
> >
> > From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Language contacts
> > ***
> > I added:
> >
> > Note also the supposedly Germanic-derived Finnish and Estonian word
for
> > 'fish': _kala_.  This is supposed to have been derived from the
> > Germanic
> > word for 'whale', thus originally probably something like "large fish"
> > or
> > "ocean creature" for the Finnic ancestors who had arrived from the
> > Volga
> > region at the shores/beaches (_strand_ >) _ranta_ of the Baltic _meri_
> > (cf.
> > Old German _meri_, Old Saxon _meri_, Old Norse _marr_ < Germanic
> > *_mari_):
>
> Flemish: maore
>
> > Old English: hwæl
> > Old Norse: hvalr (/hval+r/)
> > *Germanic: *xwalis (*/xwal+is/)
>
> Flemish/Dutch: wal(vis)
>
> > Cf. (Baltic) Old Prussian: kalis 'sheath fish'
> >
> > WIth best regards, Tapani

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