LL-L "Orthography" 2003.10.17 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 17.OCT.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Haj uw

Ron - jyw rëy':

"Aj think jyw ment "penúltymët sílëbuw" radhë dhan
"fëës sílëbuw" - æz in "Dzhëm'ænik.""

ok - sëw a mist dhë 'Dzhëm´ænik' shchres indikéjshën -
i's dífikuw' wen jyw æv të thingk ëbæwd i' - bë'
penáwtimë' silëbuw shchres æz ëpëyz të fëës silëbuw iz
ë gyd pojn' - hæwévë, dheër ë tyw meni wëëdz lajk
"penáwtimë" ën "difikuw'" weër i's no' penáwtimë'
shchres - am stikin widh wo' a sed ëbæw' fëës silëbuw
shchres.

jyw uwsëw sed:

"Izn "think" betë dhan "thingk"?  /n/ uwwejz bykúmz
_ng_ byfóa /k/, duzn i'?"

pojn' tejkën - bë' a wonnid të kijp i' cënsístën' widh
dhë difrëns bitwíjn 'ng' æz in 'singë', ën 'ngg' æz in
'finggë'. A dëyn' thingk i's samingk dhë' kën bij
ikspléjnd ëwej widh muwfólëdzhij, ëz dheëz wëëdz laj'
Ingglish 'hangar' widh nëy muwfëlódzhikuw brejk
hæwevër i's stiw prënæwnst 'hængë' - i.e. widh´æwt dhë
/g/. A dzhas wonnid të sëpuw' dhë /N/ fëynijm. If a
dëyn' inklýwd i', ad end ap widh ën uwthógrëfij lajk
Dzhëëmën weë dhej hæv "Schlange" bë "Stadt" - i' shyd
ajdhë bi "Schlange" ën "Schtadt", oë "Slange" ën
"Stadt" - dzhë ge' më dzhrift? :)

Gary

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Gary:

> If a
> dëyn' inklýwd i', ad end ap widh ën uwthógrëfij lajk
> Dzhëëmën weë dhej hæv "Schlange" bë "Stadt" - i' shyd
> ajdhë bi "Schlange" ën "Schtadt", oë "Slange" ën
> "Stadt" - dzhë ge' më dzhrift? :)

Shoë a dyw.  Dzhë ge' nëw aagjumen frëm mij dheë.  Aaftë ow, Dzhëëmën
uwthógrëfij an joëz hæv wan thing in komën: dhej miks fëníjmik prinsiplz
widh fënetik wënz (bikóz joë train të ge' ëkrós dhë sæwnd ëv joë Eshtshwarij
dajëlek.  ;)  Jyw wudn hæv dhis so' ëv pridíkëment if jë didn wonnë kæptshë
dhë sæwn an if jë jywzd wan le'ë fë ijtsh fëwnijm.  In dhë kejs ëv
"thin(g)k" etc. dhë le'ë "ŋ" (eng) wyd sëwv joë problëm: "siŋë", "fingë",
"sinkë".

Hiëz ënádhë indikéjshën ëv fënétik influëns: "finggë".  I' rifléks
non-rëwtik fënétik ëw'pu'.  Fë wo' in kënvéntshënl spelin is "fingering"
jywd hæv të rajt "finggërin(g)" in joë sistëm, widh "r".  The /r/ is
andëláingli owwejz prezn æz ë fëwnijm, an in a fëwnijm-bejzd sistëm i' wyd
hæv të bij ri'n evriweë i' kën sëëfis.  Dzhë ge' *maj* dzhrift? :)

Dan and others,

Here's another instance of having to opt for consistency versus etymology in
the Neo-Hanseatic spelling of Lowlands Saxon (Low German): <harfst>
(autumn).  Influenced by etymological awarerness, I am inclined to write
<harvst>, and I do tend to write <Harvst> in German-based orthgraphy, while
most other folks (who shoot for "phonetic" and have no awareness of
etymology) write <Harfst>.  The [f] sound in this word ([ha:fs(t)]) never
alternates, and on this basis we must assume that /f/ is underlying, which
necessitates writing it as <f> if consistency and predictability supercede
etymology.  Again, LS here has established company: Dutch <herfst>.

Etymological note:
Old English: hærfest (= /hærvest/)
LS: herƀest > hervest > Harfst
German: herbist > herbest > Herbst
Frisian: herfst > harvst, hearst, herst
Latin: carpere (to pluck, to pick)
Greek: καρπόσ [karpós] (fruit)

Where things get more interesting is where there *are* etymological
connections.  Take for example <schrift> ([SrIft] writing, script) versus
<schryven> (['Sri:vm] to write).  Should the former be spelled <schrivt>
instead?

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================