LL-L "Translations" 2003.10.31 (04) [E]

Fri Oct 31 17:40:56 UTC 2003

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 31.OCT.2003 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Translation" 2003.10.29 (09) [E/S]

Ron,

I think the meter on the German can do with some work to make it sound less
like a translation. Here my suggestion:

Ich hab' Kunde für euch:
der Hirschkrieger röhrt,
der Winter strömt nieder,
der Sommer ging fort;

kalt ist der laute Wind,
tiefer die Sonne,
kürzer ihr Pfad,
in Aufruhr das Meer;

der Farn, nun gerötet,
verbirgt seine Form,
nimmt an sich wie immer
die Schreie der Gänse,

nimmt an sich die Kälte,
die Flügel der Vögel,
die eisige Zeit ...
Das ist meine Kunde.

----------

From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: "Translation"

Ron wrote:

"Вот новости для вас:
   олений воин ревет,
   падают зимние капли,
   лето уехало;"

Would it not be closer to the Old Irish and more natural in Russian to say _
У меня есть новости для тебя _? Perhaps it would be a truer translation to
use the singular _ новость _ (news, something new)? I take it that OIr.
_dÃºib_ means 'to you (singular)'? THis would be _ для тебя _ rather than
_для вас_.

Although you mention the fact that OIr. _dam_ 'a stag, bull' is used
metaphorically as 'warrior', I don't quite see why you stress the warrior
concept so much in your translations - the poem looks to me like a
description of winter, not the story of a warrior. I would say that _ Oлень
рeвёт _ would be sufficient to convey the OIr. sense, or you could replace _
Oлень _  with _ бык _ to signify 'the bull', though I agree the stag seems
more appropriate.If you wanted to stress the warrior-nature of the stag you
could say: _ Boюющий oлень рeвёт  _.

_ падают _ is perhaps too literal, bear in mind that the usual idiom for
precipitation is _ идёт _ as in _ идёт снег _ (it's snowing), _идёт  дождь_
(it's raining) or _ град идёт _ (it's hailing). Instead of _ капли _, why
not use the plural of the diminutive _ капельки _, and instead of adjectival
_ зимние _ I would suggest the genitive form of  _ зима _, which would be _
зим _. I think perhaps _ идёт капельки зим _.

_ Вот новости _, by the way, seems appropriate to translate the last line of
the last verse, _ é mo scél _ , though one would, of course, say _ Вот мои
новости _. [I can't help wondering though whether OIr. _ scél _ might be
better served by the translation _ сказка _ (tale, story).]

Instead of _ солнце ниже _, using the comparative, why not use an
attributive adjective, thus _ солнце нижнее _ ? Note that _ солнце _ is
neuter in Russian, so the possessive adjective would be _  его _. Thus: _
его путь короче _, or, using your original order _ путь его короче_ , though
this is a comparative, 'its path is shorter', while the original merely
states that it is short ( его путь коротко ). I agree with you though that
placing comparatives in both positions seems! to add to the elegance of the
poem.

Instead of _ море является бурным _ ('the sea appears stormy' ), I would
suggest _ море вспучивание _  ('the sea is heaving'). If you wanted to
preserve the verbal nature of the line, you could maybe use the verb _
вспучивать _, which is used to describe the sea heaving with waves.Thus: _
вспучиваeт море _.

Instead of saying _ орляк, покрасневший _, why not try _ покраснил орляк _?
This would preserve the Perfect Verb of the Old Irish.

How about _ образ _ instead of _ формa _, to translate OIr. _cruth_?     _
образ _  is a somewhat more elegant word, and covers the full semantic field
of the OIr word. Using this we would have: _ скрыл его образу _.

Instead of _, how about _ хватил _? Thus _ хватил как всегда, крик гуся _ .

Again, instead of _ присваивал холод _, why not _ хватил холод _ ? I.e. 'The
cold has seized'.

If _ én_ is the genitive singular of _éan_ 'bird' in OIr., then shouldn't
you have used Russian _ птицы _ to translate it? Thus we would have:

У меня есть новости для тебя
идёт капельки зим
Boюющий oлень рeвёт
лето уехало

громкий ветер холоден
солнце ниже
путь его короче
вспучиваeт море

покраснил орляк
скрыл его образу
хватил как всегда
крик гуся

хватил холод
крылья птицы
ледяное время
вот моя новость
лето уехало

Ron, you certainly know how to keep people up all night! Anyway, I hope you
can improve on the above.Now I shall start to think how to translate the
above into Arabic and Persian!

John Duckworth
Preston, UK

----------

From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: "Translation"

Dear Ron and interested Lowlanders!

Despite being extremely tired and ready for bed I couldn't resist attempting
a translation of the Old Irish poem into Arabic. It could do with brushing
up, and I will have to leave it to Ron to present it in Arabic characters
because I am not sure how to do that in Unicode.

inna 'indii la-Hadiithun laka
inna aZ-Zabya yuja'ru
wa qaTarata sh-shitaa'i tanzilu
wa S-Sayfa qad inSarafa

inna l-'aaSifata barudat
wa sh-shamsu (i)nkhafaDat
wa masarahaa (i)qtaSara
wa qad hawwaja l-baHru wa mawwaja

fa-inna l-sarfasa l-muHammara
qad khaba'a Suratahuu
wa akhadha ka-l-'aadati
SayHata l-iwazzi

fa-qad akhadha l-bardu
janaHayi T-Tayri
zamana th-thuluuji
fa-inna haadhaa la-huwa Hadiithii

[NB. Emphatic consonants in capital letters, and long vowels written as
doble vowels. dh for etha, and th for thorn / theta. I have given the final
vowels as they were pronounced (often lengthened) in Classical Arabic
poetry.]

John Duckworth
Preston, UK.

----------

From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: "Translation"

Dear Ron and Lowlanders,

Here's a stab at a Chinese version of the Old Irish poem. I am afraid I ca't
figure out a way of putting all the accents on the words to represent the
tones, and I have no idea how you manage to encode the characters so I will
have to show tones with numbers. Also, although you give three Chinese words
for bracken they consist of several characters, and each line of the poem I
have limited to four characters; unfortunately I don't have a dictionary
available to look for one character meaning 'bracken', perhaps you could
help?

wo(3) gao(4) ni(2) xin(1)
lu(1)  hu(1) xiao(4) le
xia(4) yu(3) di(1) dong(1)
xie(4) ji(4)  zou(3) le
xiang(3) feng(1) shi(4) leng(3)
ri(4) zui(4) ei(4) chen(2)
ri(4) jing(4) geng(4) duan(3)
hai(3) cheng(1) bao(4) feng(1)
hong(2) ..... zhe(1) mian (4)
shi(4) jiu(1) e(2) hu(1)
han(2) jiu(1) qin(1) yi(4)
bing (1) ji(4) wo(3) xin(1)

John Duckworth
Preston, UK.

----------

From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: "Translation"

Hello Ron,

I have just done a quick Turkish translation, but gain I don't have any
dictionary at hand and you don't seem to have provided a Turkish word for
'bracken', is it the same thing as _eğreltiotou_? I will provisionally put
this word in the translation, though I think it might be a slightly
different plant.

Bende sana anlatacak bir haber vardır.
Geyik böğür
Kışın damlalar boşanır
Yaz kalkmıştır.

Şiddetli rüzgâr soğuk tur
Güneş da alçak tır
Yolu daha kısa dır
Deniz fırtınalı dır.

Kırmızı eğreltiotou şeklini saklamıştır
Eski gibi kazın feryatini kavranmıştır
Soğuk kuşun kanatlarını kavranmıştır
Buz mevsimi dir, bu benim haber dir.

John Duckworth
Preston, UK.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Translations

Thanks, Gabriele and John!

John, you *have* been busy, but you took it on yourself, bud.  Don't blame
*me*!  :-)

I have no idea what some of the Chinese characters are meant to be.  As for
the Turkish, I'm sure it needs some help (e.g., with brevity and
consistency, such as less use of _dir_, consistent presence or absence of
the _-mış-_ report form, and perhaps _sizlere haber var_ in the beginning,
and _bu (benim) haberim dir_ at the end).  However, I leave that to those
who know better, and I think this is getting too far off-topic, so we ought
to take it to the private level.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================