LL-L "Lexicon" 2003.09.01 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 01.SEP.2003 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Stella en Henno <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2003.08.30 (09) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Here are some further observations about Lowlands Saxon (Low German)
lexical
> issues.
>
> In many dialects of Northern Germany (and also in Mennonite
_Plautdietsch_,
> I believe) there are clear signs of lexical loss with regard to names of
> countries, ethnic groups, etc., older “native” terms having been replaced
by
> German loans.  For example:
>
[snip]>

A few West Frisian examples:
German: Dúts(k), (Dutch "Duits") instead of native _Tjutsk_ or similar forms
(still attested in the 19th century), cf North Frisian forms like _tjiisk_
(Fering, I believe).
The modern form is probably frisianised Dutch (via the simple ui > ú
"rule"), and either borrowed that way from Town Frisian or via school
education.

Hungarian: Hongaars(k), (Dutch "Hongaars") instead of native _Ongersk_ and
_Ongerlân_ for Dutch _Hongarije_.

Belgian: Belgysk (D. Belgisch), België (D same), instead of Bels(k),
Belzelân.
To use Ongersk, Bels etc would be to induce ridicule and miscomprehension...
Maybe in archaic Frisian it would still be usable (Bels for the type of
horse is more common still).
asic terminology, such as that of fruit and
> vegetables, is lost in some dialects; for instance:
>
> Kirsch(e) (< G. Kirsche) ‘cherry’
> Native: Kars, Karsbeer, Karsbäär
>
> Pfirsich ~ Firsich ~ Feersich (< G. Pfirsich) ‘peach’
> Native: Peersch (peyrsch)
>
Also, native _pjirk_ is replaced by Dutch _perzik_.

> Many speakers of Germany do not understand when I use the abovementioned
> native words for the fruit.
>
> Interestingly, these latter items got lost in the dialects of the
> fruit-growing areas right around Hamburg, such as that of Olland/Altes
Land.
> Of course, it ought not surprise anyone that they are lost in the dialects
> of Hamburg (yes, there are several of them).  My theory is that business
> with “yellow” (i.e. more strongly “High-German”-influenced) Hamburg caused
> the dialects of the adjacent areas to lose the native terms of the very
> items their speakers grow and sell.
>
> If such things happened in the Lowlands Saxon dialects of the Eastern
> Netherlands -- and I assume they did, i.e. there are Dutch
importantions --
> then these would probably not be as easily identifiable due to the much
> closer relationship between LS and Dutch than between LS and German.
>
> Any further observations and thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

As to countries and derived names: people learn geography in school, and
there they learn the official names, hence the decline, I think. But maybe
having a Frisian news service (_Hjoed_) might help spread the older name
again. But for this to happen they have to start covering more global news,
I'm afraid...

Mei freonlike groetenis,

Henno Brandsma

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================